DMing philosophy, from Lewis Pulsipher

[Bluenose]

I think Ruin Explorer covered that well. By extension, D&D-esque traps should exist in our real world, and by and large, they don't. No, Dungeons are full of traps because Gygax and company thought traps were keen.

I'm not sure that D&D was ever really based on what you have in the Real World, though. Conan, Fafhrd, the Grey Mouser, and others certainly ran into traps rather frequently, and they're among the entries in Appendix N which supposedly inspired the game.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm not sure that D&D was ever really based on what you have in the Real World, though. Conan, Fafhrd, the Grey Mouser, and others certainly ran into traps rather frequently, and they're among the entries in Appendix N which supposedly inspired the game.

Er, did you read my post to which he is referring?

That is precisely my point. They are a construct of the genre, as I said. Further, they appear very inconsistently within that genre. Tons of Appendix N or S&S material and so on features no mechanical-unattended traps (or even magical quasi-traps). That's why D&D often has them. However, they are not required, nor is an adventure, dungeon or place without them somehow "unrealistic" or inappropriate, which was the apparent assertion that I was responding to. I do like traps, but for me they need to make sense in context, and many D&D ones do not.

I would differentiate traps and hazards, note (and D&D tends to as well).

 

[Umbran]

Conan, Fafhrd, the Grey Mouser, and others certainly ran into traps rather frequently, and they're among the entries in Appendix N which supposedly inspired the game.

The claim was that traps exist because, "A lack of traps wouldn't make sense. I strive for a world that makes sense."

The worlds of Conan, Fafhrd, et al do not make sense. That's why we consider them "fantasy".

I'm fine with, "I strive for a world like Nehwon, so I include traps."

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) Liar's Dice is a game of bluffing. Each player begins with five dice. Each player rolls their secretly, then in turn each player chooses either to make a guess about the current state of the game or accuse the previous guess of being incorrect. When an accusation is made, the round ends and the dice are compared - if the guess was correct, the accuser loses one die, otherwise the liar loses one die. The game ends when only one player has dice remaining.

Each guess says that there are a certain number of a certain side currently in the game. So, "Four of the dice show fives" or "Two sixes". A new guess must be higher than the old - either in the number of dice used or the face showing. So "Four fives" could be improved by "Five threes" or "Four Sixes" but not "Four threes". Obviously, at some point the statement as to what's left will become impossible.

What makes it such an interesting game is that the bids let you know something about what dice everyone has, unless, of course, they were deceiving you.

Cheers!

Thanks for posting that.

I've only ever played it as a drinking game in China in Chinese even though I neither drink nor speak Chinese. (So, yes, I knock back water or tea while my opponent is knocking back Chinese whiskey. I normally win....) I never realised there was a non-drinking version....

 

[Bluenose]

The claim was that traps exist because, "A lack of traps wouldn't make sense. I strive for a world that makes sense."

The worlds of Conan, Fafhrd, et al do not make sense. That's why we consider them "fantasy".

I'm fine with, "I strive for a world like Nehwon, so I include traps."

I don't read any statement about D&D and "what makes sense" as an appeal to what makes sense in Real Life. I read it as an appeal to something that makes sense in the genre, where they do appear. Real Life and D&D remain independent cases, to my way of thinking. I expect traps in Nehwon or Hyboria, and their appearance in a game influenced by those settings makes sense. At least to me. And I think both you and [MENTION=18]Ruin Explorer[/MENTION], based on his further post. I'm not sure that's the way [MENTION=6698278]Emerikol[/MENTION] thinks of them, to be fair, but there is plenty of reason to include them from my perspective even if it differs from his.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't read any statement about D&D and "what makes sense" as an appeal to what makes sense in Real Life. I read it as an appeal to something that makes sense in the genre, where they do appear.

Again, I have to ask: did you read my post? I really get the feeling that you've still not.

I specifically addressed this. The genre is inconsistent. It makes no more or less "sense" to have lots of traps or absolutely no traps.

Real Life and D&D remain independent cases, to my way of thinking. I expect traps in Nehwon or Hyboria, and their appearance in a game influenced by those settings makes sense. At least to me. And I think both you and [MENTION=18]Ruin Explorer[/MENTION], based on his further post. I'm not sure that's the way [MENTION=6698278]Emerikol[/MENTION] thinks of them, to be fair, but there is plenty of reason to include them from my perspective even if it differs from his.

D&D-style traps are fairly rare in Nehwon, so "expecting" them as routine doesn't flow naturally from that. I can't speak for Hyboria.

Apart from that, you're moving the goalposts - it's not about "reason to include them". It's about the insistence that traps "make sense", with the strong suggestion that a lack of traps does not.

 

[Hussar]

I was going to say - I've read a lot of Conan stories, and I'm struggling to think of any with D&D style traps in them. I'm sure that there are a couple here or there, but, really, I don't think they make an appearance very often. The whole Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom thing with a series of traps with the golden statue at the end isn't a Conan thing.

Although, it certainly is a pulp fantasy thing. You do see it in lots of the pulp short stories. Which is why you see it in Indiana Jones. And, this is why you see it in D&D.

 

[pemerton]

I've read a lot of Conan stories, and I'm struggling to think of any with D&D style traps in them.

There are secret doors, and the occasional pit. Off the top of my head I can't think of any scything blades, falling blocks or poison needles.

 

[howandwhy99]

We had a fun game tonight at Nexus gaming con in Milwaukee. I ran Castle Zagyg:Upper Works and the players all agreed at the end that it was an enjoyable module. one thing that happened early on was the party entering the "bat cave" (#E) and using a grappling hook to enter the castle from beneath via "a tubular tunnel of brickwork leading straight upwards, the top of which you notice has a large wooden crossbar across its end with a rope attached."

This is a classic D&D trick of course. They hadn't yet seen within the castle, so I was very careful about how I explained the "cave" shaft out of the natural cavern. I expected the players to figure it out right away, but they never let on. Once a couple PCs were finally out of the "4' ring of stonewall with wooden pylons, crossbar, and nearby bucket" I finally told them a they stood beside a well in a corner courtyard.

Of course they figured it out right away, but they never let on string ME along as I kept describing the environment in details rather than its composition.

I don't know how each DM differentiates between Tricks & Traps, but I guess I treat the first as environmental and the second as creature creations. Of course it's also common to think of both as creature creations where tricks fool players (like a wild goose chase), while traps must always entrap (like a bear trap hidden or not).

 

[Emerikol]

I don't read any statement about D&D and "what makes sense" as an appeal to what makes sense in Real Life. I read it as an appeal to something that makes sense in the genre, where they do appear. Real Life and D&D remain independent cases, to my way of thinking. I expect traps in Nehwon or Hyboria, and their appearance in a game influenced by those settings makes sense. At least to me. And I think both you and @Ruin Explorer, based on his further post. I'm not sure that's the way @Emerikol thinks of them, to be fair, but there is plenty of reason to include them from my perspective even if it differs from his.

Another way of saying this perhaps is...given a set of setting premises does the concept make sense. D&D is in itself a set of premises. D&D has an implied setting even if not one single setting were supplied. In a world with teleport, things are different. I try and make peace with these things when I design a campaign world but if I want something different I change the game to reflect that difference.