AI/LLMs DMs Guild and DriveThruRPG ban AI written works, requires labels for AI generated art

[Guest 7030100]

That won’t stop AI from causing disastrous amounts of job losses. We’ll just also see a dramatic drop in the quality of most content as AI start generating more of it.

Yeah, that's the low bar of consumerism at work, I suppose. Just like today's ultra-processed, low-nutrient but highly "deliciously engineered" foodstuffs. The freezer aisle in any random grocery store is the food equivalent of AI art, where "corn syrup" is swapped out with "photo realistic elf babe, soft focus, huge (umm...) pauldrons, doe eyes and pouty lips."

 

[Sacrosanct]

Why is it that we should jobs of writers and artists, what about the people who write the AI algorithms? Shouldn't they be invited to the table?

No. Because...

Last I checked writers are not pounding things out on typewriters and artists aren't painting canvass, they are using technology and replaced those "old school" creatives and are doing it better and faster. The AI creators should be given the same sort of opportunity.

If my computer breaks, I can still draw. Or write. I can still produce. I can create without needing references. Regardless of the tool, it's still me doing the creating. Without a database that is dependent on using others' work without permission, AI engines can't do anything. Without the AI software being up, you can't produce anything.

Writing and art takes years of practice. Typing in prompts isn't remotely the same thing, and to argue that people who type in prompts should be at the same table as those who have spent years working on their trade is quite frankly insulting.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If my computer breaks, I can still draw. Or write. I can still produce. I can create without needing references. Without a database that is dependent on using others' work without permission, AI engines can't do anything. Without the AI software being up, you can't produce anything.

You've already got a database with other people's work. Its in your head.

 

[Zardnaar]

The people who think generative AI will be able to create creative works comparable to what humans can create don't tend to be people who've made their living doing creative work.I believe they're often underestimating that this work is harder than it appears, when done right.

I think the logic is if one can train AI to do art in RPG space probably won't be to long they xan write an adventure.

RPG adventure design has been somewhat formulaic since Paizo started doing adventure paths.

LMoP is great but not exactly revolutionary. By that it's not that different to the starting adventures in various Paizo APs WotC kinda copied them.

The formula is kinda there in a lot of follow up adventures. Theoretically an AI coukd spit out a basic crappy adventure including maps an editor could sex up a bit to something average.

It's not like 5E is known for lots of quality adventures from WotC.

 

[Oligopsony]

If my computer breaks, I can still draw. Or write. I can still produce. I can create without needing references. Regardless of the tool, it's still me doing the creating. Without a database that is dependent on using others' work without permission, AI engines can't do anything. Without the AI software being up, you can't produce anything.

Obviously, some media (film, photography, architecture) are more dependent on external tools than others (dance, standup.) This isn’t otherwise considered relevant to legitimacy. (Ironically trad art is probably closer to film than dance on this scale.)

Writing and art takes years of practice. Typing in prompts isn't remotely the same thing, and to argue that people who type in prompts should be at the same table as those who have spent years working on their trade is quite frankly insulting.

Since it’s a new medium, you obviously don’t have many people who spent years being good at it and pushing its boundaries; I think it’ll be interesting when we do so.

(To go with the photography analogy, me (zero skill at photography) can in seconds point a button and get a more accurate depiction of a human form than Renaissance masters were able to. That doesn’t mean I can do many of the interesting things Renaissance masters can do, or that people who have poured years into photography can do.)

insofar as this is about jobs, then yeah, I think it’s unfortunate that there will likely be a loss of some jobs. But nb that getting to work full-time as a trad artist is already quite rare; most of the joy created by it is through people pursuing it as a hobby. Personally I’m glad that there’s a new artistic/hobby space to explore.

(If the industry standard was “anything with AI in it has to be shared” or whatever that would be fine with me, maybe even ideal. People generally don’t try to sell fanfic but it’s become a part of the culture, and I even think that keeping it amateur has been good for it in many ways.)

 

[Reynard]

I think this is true, but so are the people who think we’re going to get fully AI-produced content that’s indistinguishable from human-produced content.

Sadly, I don't think that's what some people think. I think some people don't care about the differences because their appreciation for art is extremely shallow. AI is going to do shallow and formulaic very well.

 

[ECMO3]

That won’t stop AI from causing disastrous amounts of job losses.

There will be far more jobs created than lost. This is like complaining about the horse trainers who lost their job when Henry Ford started selling cars to the masses!

There are not that many creative jobs to start with and it is generally low paying work.

We’ll just also see a dramatic drop in the quality of most content as AI start generating more of it.

If the quality is inferior then the creatives won't lose their jobs.

I would also argue that the quality of writing in WOTC products, especially adventures, has already dropped precipitously over the last 9 years, so it is not like employing human writers has benn some kind of bulwark against that. It is time to give the machines a shot.

 

[Charlaquin]

Since it’s a new medium, you obviously don’t have many people who spent years being good at it and pushing its boundaries; I think it’ll be interesting when we do so.

What is there to master about it? Coming up with better descriptions of the art you want it to make? That’s not a skill set with a very high ceiling.

insofar as this is about jobs, then yeah, I think it’s unfortunate that there will likely be a loss of some jobs. But nb that getting to work full-time as a trad artist is already quite rare; most of the joy created by it is through people pursuing it as a hobby.

You are very, very mistaken about that.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sadly, I don't think that's what some people think. I think some people don't care about the differences because their appreciation for art is extremely shallow. AI is going to do shallow and formulaic very well.

I think even with shallow and formulaic content, it’s still going to require human quality control.

 

[Charlaquin]

There will be far more jobs created than lost. This is like complaining about the horse trainers who lost their job when Henry Ford started selling cars to the masses!

Ha, no. It’s more like when assembly workers were replaced by automated machinery. Some new jobs are created maintaining the machines, but far fewer than were lost, and at lower pay rates.

There are not that many creative jobs to start with and it is generally low paying work.

It’s not just creative jobs that these algorithms are going to be taking. Data entry is a big one that’s at risk. Although, frankly, any humans losing their livelihoods to AI would be too many.

If the quality is inferior then the creatives won't lose their jobs.

That’s a silly claim. There are already people in this very thread lamenting that this policy is going to make publishing more expensive for them. Never underestimate people’s willingness to sacrifice quality for affordability.

I would also argue that the quality of writing in WOTC products, especially adventures, has already dropped precipitously over the last 9 years, so it is not like employing human writers has benn some kind of bulwark against that. It is time to give the machines a shot.

It’s still leaps and bounds better than any current AI can produce. And even as the technology improves, it’s never going to be able to work without human quality control, because it’s fundamentally not capable of judgment.