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DMs sure can make life hard... :(

Well, our DM woes continue.... We're near the end of a subset of our campaign. Climbing a spiral tower. After DC checks on alarm trapped doors, etc, we get in through a window. (funny moment - we all succeed our checks to land quietly on the stairway landing beneath the window except for the Paladin in chain mail... Thud! Kathunk! Boom!<lol>).

So at the landing before the final door at the top of the tower...are 2 stone statues. The landing is a pressure plate and they come to life. They are Stone Golems. We actually have some guests this Saturday session, and wind up with 2 Warlords. We are all level 10.

9 seems like a really big group, and I guess it is...but the 2 Stone Golems are level 17 elite soldiers with 33AC and +23 to hit. Most of our party has +14, +15+ or in my Avengers case I managed to crank out a +16 to hit. Still, look what we have to roll to hit them. I have to roll a 17 or better just to hit. Our group as a whole, has to roll in the 17-19 range just to H I T. At +23, and highest AC in our group being 25, they hit almost every time.

The Warlords, as leader class, help with the skills like the one that gives +6 to hit until the end of their next turn, but thats still just one turn out of the encounter. We did other things, like flank them, for CA etc, but you can see how difficult this would be.

On top of that, when we first entered combat with them, we mistakenly thought they were stationary and tried to just blow past them and ignore them. That was a mistake of course. It was brought about because when we tried to push them, the DM ruled they couldn't be pushed. So we tried pull...then slide....and knocked prone - and finally I tried to teleport one with Sequestering Strike. All over-ruled by the DM - so we thought they were stationary. As soon as our front line blew by them, they targeted our wizard, sorceror, etc,.. We argued as to how could none of the movement affects work on them, and they said it was a DM ruling, deal with it. When they got an OA from us moving past them (it was a 3 square wide stair way) and they used the Stone Golems At-will and standard attacks for the OA, we questioned that, saying that if the Stats for the monster didn't specifically grant it the ability to use an alternate for an OA, then it should be a Basic attack. They (the current DM and the one that switches out with him) said that WOTC could bite them, and the 4e rules along with them - that they were running the game, and that was the final say on that. Period.

So it turned in to a very long encounter, especially with 9 players, who missed the majority of the time, while they wailed on us.

2 of the nine playes have decided not to return - or so they have told me, but they haven't informed the party yet.

I really love D&D and have grown very fond of my Avenger, but its difficult sometimes.

Whats everyones input on this...or do I just need to tighten my belt another notch, suck it up, and deal with it, as the DMs said?

Thanks...just venting a bit I guess... :)
 

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2 of the nine playes have decided not to return - or so they have told me, but they haven't informed the party yet.
It seems likely that your DM(s) have very different ideas from you and possibly the rest of the players (in particular, the two that have decided not to return) with respect to what makes a game enjoyable.

Perhaps it's time for someone else in the group to try his hand at DMing. Possibly even yourself, if you feel up to it.
 

Before I say anything else I'd just like to point out that monsters usually have a power that counts as their basic melee attack for the case of OA's.

That aside, your DM's were clearly powertripping and if this is a common thing I agree with the two players that decided not to return.
 

Well, let's see; A standard encounter for 9 Lvl 10s is 45k xp. This could get upto 50k if you're talking two level 10 solos, which would seem appropriate for what you describe.

2 Lvl 17 Elites is 64 k. SIGNIFICANTLY above your means.

From what I've read from your previous threads, it seems your DM doesn't get the math behind 4e - There's a reason the DMG suggests not to use creatures of a significantly higher level than the players.

So, either the DM is ignorant of encounter design, or he's ruthless. I mean, if this sort of thing happened once, as a narrative device? Great. It has its uses. But it seems to crop up a bit too often for it to be planned that way.

I don't blame those two for deciding to leave.

As a side note, DM fiat is fine and all, but using it to screw the players? Not cool.

EDIT - Hey, if these DMs aren't working for you, take FireLance's advice - I'm sure those two guys who're quitting still want to play! DM for 'em yourself!
 
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I'd stay away from that DM if things continue on that way. The most frustrating things in 4e are 1) Always missing and 2) Always being hit.

He's doing both at once with that encounter and clearly has no concept of encounter balance.

Any situation where monsters autohit characters ruins the mechanics of the game outright.
 


Point him to this thread, he (they?) are being tossers. The game is a joint thing, and if the style they run is not for you then you gotta tell them. Make sure everyone who agrees with you backs you up. If he/they don't get it and want to continue to DM that way, time to leave or DM yourself. Just odd that some people cannot get over themselves enough to see another persons point of view.

However if no one backs you up then maybe your in the wrong not them!
 

Just to correct 2 things - our Paladin was wearing Plate, not chainmail, and I just found out from another player that the Stone Golems ability to deny forced movement of any kind and teleportation was from a Dragon magazine (don't know number) and its Guardian Form (if I got that right). Apparently the DM had added that to the Stone Golems we fought. So I guess that part was legal. They also couldn't be crit'ed against apparently.

One of the 2 players that's qutting is my 18 year old son, Kyle. Like most teenagers, he is an avid player, and very good (ah, for those reflexes again!). It'll be tough now, because I've really enjoyed gaming with him. He just decided that he'd had enough, as did the other player.

I guess, because I'm a glutton for punishment, I'll stick around a while longer. Just because we're fighting monsters 7 levels above us in Heroic, I'm curious to see what happens when we hit Paragon. I know, I may regret staying. :)

Thanks for everyone's input.
 

One of the 2 players that's qutting is my 18 year old son, Kyle. Like most teenagers, he is an avid player, and very good (ah, for those reflexes again!). It'll be tough now, because I've really enjoyed gaming with him. He just decided that he'd had enough, as did the other player.

I just wanted to say that if I had an 18 year old son who wanted to play D&D with me no halfwit DM would stand in my way. Get a couple of the other players from the group to come out and run a game for you son and them. Better yet see if your son has some friends that might be interested in playing with the both of you!
 


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