DM's. To sunder or not to sunder?

[Sodalis]

sunder- YES, but do it in the ocntext of the game- and not to
1)take away magic weapons erroneously given to PCs
2)level th eplaying field cause the PC is too powerful with it
3)cause you can...

a pregenerated monster with that feat should use it- but not if it means putting his life in danger (unless he has int of 4)

spoiler- Iron Fortress
.
.
.
my DM did that to us- and pissed the heck out of us-

1(cleric) had a +1 mace w/ spell store- but enchanted with GMW earlier in the day to +4. the rogue had a +4 bow/frost. A beast (iron fortress) ran past me (AoO with mace of Odo- 10d6) just to break the rogue's bow.

The DM knew that his was a genuine +4, while mine was a +1 enchanted to +4- so broke his instead...pissed the heck out of the group. I ended up loaning him my +1 shortbow, enchanted each morning (bow and arrow)- giving it +10, so he did more with the pidly thing than with his priginal bow...but still pissed us off...

Pielorinho :
When Goofus DMs, he says:
"The demon rolls a 23. He hits your sword. Okay, and then he rolls 20 points of damage. That breaks your sword."

yup- that was exactly how the exchange went... but with an evil grin to end it.

 

[alsih2o]

lol pielorinho!!!

we need an entire goofus and gallant dm thread.....oh, much water in the eyes from that one....


HIGHLIGHTS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zerovoid]

I see the sunder issue kind of like deciding when to do a coup-de-grace on a downed character.

Sometimes the bad guys are just getting torn up, and the players are going to win a relatively hard fight with relatively little cost... then a PC ends up at -1, or gets held person cast. If the NPC uses a coup de grace, they will probably kill the PC, but the downed PC is probably out of the fight anyway, so its not a good move on the NPC's part. Most of them will rather fight for their lives than hurt the players out of spite.

Sunder is kind of similar. It really hurts the PC's, since they will be missing that weapon for a long time, but it doesn't really help the NPC in most circumstances, since he is just interested in getting out of this fight alive. In most cases, they're better off hacking on the PC, than trying to break their weapon. After all, the PC probably has a replacement weapon. Maybe not quite as good, but enough to still hurt the NPC.

 

[James McMurray]

NPCs may be hurt nearly as badly by the backup weapon, but a creature with DR likely won't be, thus making it a good tactic for them.

 

[Lord Ben]

Good points, sunder is a very good tactic, but so is just doing damage. I didn't want to just create a 6th level fighter with a +2 greatsword and start breaking weapons for two rounds. It's the perfect tactic for a creature with DR though, but I didn't know if PC's took it badly or not.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

NPCs may be hurt nearly as badly by the backup weapon, but a creature with DR likely won't be, thus making it a good tactic for them.

Likely won't be? Yeah, right.

A prepared party will have a scroll or two with GMW.

Sundering is usually a poor tactical choice against a savvy party. The more powerful opponents that are actually good at it are usually one of a kind. So the Big Boss Monster spends his action destroying a weapon. Now the party loses one or two actions readying the replacement. So what? That is a net gain to the party of 2 or 3 actions. Advantage: PCs.

The other thing is that you have to be fair if you are playing the sunder game and not take advantage of knowledge your pet beastie would not have.

Does that creature with DR 10/+2 know whether he is up against a +2 or a +3 weapon? There is really no way to tell until you try.

You also have to be very fair or there can be bad repurcussions. Nothing creates bad karma for the DM faster than seeing pet monsters get to metagame against the PCs, e.g. running past a GMWed mace to sunder a more valuable bow.

One suggestion: Sundering is probably okay if you put a lot of magical weapons in the game.

If you sunder many weapons, don't complain if PCs start relying of GMWed +1 energy energy weapons. You are the one encouraging them to powergame, so suck it up.

 

[James McMurray]

So the party's wizard or cleric is forced to spend a round replacing a weapon (assuming he can get within reach, and assuming the spell isn't disrupted somehow). That's a round that could have been spent healing or dealing damage. Sounds like a good deal to me. And of course, you're assuming that the party has scrolls around. Making a scroll of GMW high enough level to be useful (6th or 9th) is not cheap, and there are better ways to spend that money and time.

Sure, it isn't the best tactic in all situations, but to say it is not useful is wrong as well. And of course the DM should be fair. He should be fair whether he is sundering or not. That should go without saying.

 

[Vuron]

A Marlith with Improved Sunder would be nice and nasty

 

[Oni]

One thing to keep in mind when sundering your players equipment is that it is a limited resource for them, HP are a lot easier to replace than a broken magic item. You will be reducing their avg wealth and potentially throwing CR's out of whack if you do this on too common a basis with out giving them some sort replacement in whatever treasures they might earn.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

So the party's wizard or cleric is forced to spend a round replacing a weapon (assuming he can get within reach, and assuming the spell isn't disrupted somehow). That's a round that could have been spent healing or dealing damage. Sounds like a good deal to me. And of course, you're assuming that the party has scrolls around. Making a scroll of GMW high enough level to be useful (6th or 9th) is not cheap, and there are better ways to spend that money and time.

When you are fighting 1 vs. 5, trading an action for an action is a sure way to lose. That a pretty common situation for a creature that would be good at sundering like a demon or dragon.

675 gp is expensive? It is a very cheap way to have effective backup weapons in the party.