D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

[Maxperson]

Yeah, exactly. I'm not in the Convention scene, but I wouldn't use the opportunity to play what I do regularly with friends and family, or even thst I would be interested in long term playing. Test some stuff out, do an odd one shot.

A buddy of mine likes to play in boardgame tournaments. Every single time we go to a convention he asks me if I will play in one. Every single time I tell him no, because I don't want to pay to spend all day playing one game that I already know well. I'd rather learn 5 new ones.

 

[Bernard Corwin]

I feel like it has more to do with changing tastes. There's a market beyond wargame-derived fantasy. All you need to do is look at other forms of entertainment. There's always been potential to do more, and yes, I know there are definitive games in other genres, but there's still a larger untapped audience out there.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I feel like it has more to do with changing tastes. There's a market beyond wargame-derived fantasy. All you need to do is look at other forms of entertainment. There's always been potential to do more, and yes, I know there are definitive games in other genres, but there's still a larger untapped audience out there.

Board games are arguably bigger than they've ever been and it certainly seems like what we'd identify as a wargame hasn't kept up, percentage-wise, within that space. So the wargame-to-RPG pipeline seems to be well and truly frayed.

I suspect more people are coming to RPGs from Frostgrave than they are Axis & Allies (to say nothing of more crunchy wargames).

 

[GrimCo]

It's small leap from Descent to ttrpg. Heck, you can play descent as ttrpg. Standard game rules are for dungeons and combat, outside combat, freeform rp and roll under/over stat for resolution and you are golden.

 

[MacDhomnuill]

In regards to the seats at conventions issue, we have a small convention in Kansas City, Midwest Game Fest, which is coming up in about three weeks. There are tons (relative to con size) of pathfinder, Starfinder, and DND 5e games being run but they are only at about 30% seats filled. Every single one of the smaller and Indy games are packed, not a seat to be had. Only two small games with open seats are a traveller session (edition not mentioned in listing) and a Mythic Bastion land game that was full yesterday but now has two seat open. I believe that if we could get more people to run indie/small press games at conventions to increase availability of seats we could get a better picture of how popular they are. Oh and as an aside the biggest ttrpg by number of session and filled seats is legend of the five rings-living rokugan! Which has been full up every year for the last 4 years I have attended.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

If we're talking about popularity there are several ways you can count that. As mentioned in this thread many people at cons are playing something other than their regular weekly games. So if you play D&D at home or online say biweekly, but then played 3 different indie RPGs at a couple of conventions over the course of the year, what does that mean as far as popularity?

Additionally, if you're in the business and doing research I'd say you're at least as interested in what people are buying, not just what they're playing. People playing one-offs at a con may have spent zero money on the game while spending a whole bunch on what they play at home. There are more layers to this of course but there are "things people say they'd like to try" and then there is "where people are spending their money".

If 100 people buy a $15 indie PDF that's great for the creator but I'd hold off from saying it's turning the industry upside down.

 

[Reynard]

If we're talking about popularity there are several ways you can count that. As mentioned in this thread many people at cons are playing something other than their regular weekly games. So if you play D&D at home or online say biweekly, but then played 3 different indie RPGs at a couple of conventions over the course of the year, what does that mean as far as popularity?

Additionally, if you're in the business and doing research I'd say you're at least as interested in what people are buying, not just what they're playing. People playing one-offs at a con may have spent zero money on the game while spending a whole bunch on what they play at home. There are more layers to this of course but there are "things people say they'd like to try" and then there is "where people are spending their money".

If 100 people buy a $15 indie PDF that's great for the creator but I'd hold off from saying it's turning the industry upside down.

Based on my experience, folks who have a good experience with a new game at a con are MUCH more likely to spend money on that game (either at the con or shortly thereafter, while the fun is a fresh memory) than they are to spend extra money on whatever game they usually play and purchase for.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's small leap from Descent to ttrpg. Heck, you can play descent as ttrpg. Standard game rules are for dungeons and combat, outside combat, freeform rp and roll under/over stat for resolution and you are golden.

I was introduced to Dungeon! around the same time as I was introduced to D&D and it was definitely a big part of reinforcing that bond. The version of the game we had (with the vinyl board) had an extremely OD&D/1E feel to the monster and treasure cards, which made it feel very much like a D&D product, although it technically was not at that time.

 

[Kichwas]

But what are people actually playing? That seems pretty important to me. And I think there are good and useful ways to find out! They used to publish, and I assume they still do, a list of all the RPG event tables booked at GenCon and which game system they were booked for and that is very revealing.

This is a very difficult thing to ever measure.

You can't look at cons because really only super-fans and industry insiders go to those.
You can't look at 'D&D Beyond' because that's only D&D.
You can't look at Roll20 because there are very large games who's playerbase almost universally reject it (Pathfinder). You can't look at competitors if they're mostly self-hosted.
You can't post a poll because most people won't see it.

All we have is guesses.

So people fall back to sales because if a game is selling well enough to not have to shutter its doors and only sell through the 'discount bin' of DriveThruRPG PDFs then it probably has players playing it "somewhere". Or maybe everyone playing it just already bought the books (somehow I suspect there are more than 0 AD&D1E players out there, yet no one's bought any new books for it in decades).

I also suspect there's a lot of sales through kickstarters that have gone to people who never ended up playing the game they bought. That's just fine for the sellers of a one-off, but it's not generating active community.

 

[John Lloyd1]

This is a very difficult thing to ever measure.

You can't look at cons because really only super-fans and industry insiders go to those.
You can't look at 'D&D Beyond' because that's only D&D.
You can't look at Roll20 because there are very large games who's playerbase almost universally reject it (Pathfinder). You can't look at competitors if they're mostly self-hosted.
You can't post a poll because most people won't see it.

All we have is guesses.

So people fall back to sales because if a game is selling well enough to not have to shutter its doors and only sell through the 'discount bin' of DriveThruRPG PDFs then it probably has players playing it "somewhere". Or maybe everyone playing it just already bought the books (somehow I suspect there are more than 0 AD&D1E players out there, yet no one's bought any new books for it in decades).

I also suspect there's a lot of sales through kickstarters that have gone to people who never ended up playing the game they bought. That's just fine for the sellers of a one-off, but it's not generating active community.

I think start playing would have the best data set. You aren't going to get a perfect set of data and I don't think you need one for these sorts of discussion unless you are after a very specific insight.