D&D 5E Dnd World Demographics Excel Tool - Rarity of Classes and Spells

[ph0rk]

Taxes too were usually not in food but money and it was the peasants job to earn money for the taxes. That sometimes included selling food in the city, but also spinning, labour and many other sources.

All replaceable with automatons that don't need to eat and don't complain.

With the added bonus that they can convert to a fighting force with minimal effort.

 

[Ixal]

All replaceable with automatons that don't need to eat and don't complain.

With the added bonus that they can convert to a fighting force with minimal effort.

No, not really.
Even today in the real world most jobs can not be easily replaced by robots which are far smarter than unintelligent undead. A zombie would never be able to do even a semi skilled job like charcoal burning without producing a lot of waste because its too stupid to do it well. Same for farming. It might cultivate more land than a living farmer and not eat the product itself, so it still will be a net gain in the end, but the chance for harvest failure would be higher because its dumb.

And everyone realized that converting your farmers and labourers to soldiers is a very bad idea.

 

[ph0rk]

No, not really.
Even today in the real world most jobs can not be easily replaced by robots which are far smarter than unintelligent undead.

No, the robots are not smarter than undead - particularly because undead do not need to be unintelligent, but also because an intelligence 7 creature is capable of far more adaptation than some of our most sophisticated automation at this point.

There are Int 11 CR2 undead to be had.

Worst case you need a handful of weaker wizards for a particularly massive force, but that easily managed.

And everyone realized that converting your farmers and labourers to soldiers is a very bad idea.

Unless under attack, and the undead laborers convert much more quickly, and create fodder for their replacements in combat, if it comes to that. The laborers are all already a military force, there is no conscription or equipping or anything like that required.

This is a bit like how every level 2 ranger can feed 20 people per day with effectively zero labor. The magic system in 5e completely breaks any kind of economy modeled after anything we've seen in the real world. High magic worlds either need tremendously powerful organizations clamping stuff like this down or it becomes a dystopian free for all very, very quickly.

 

[Ixal]

No, the robots are not smarter than undead - particularly because undead do not need to be unintelligent, but also because an intelligence 7 creature is capable of far more adaptation than some of our most sophisticated automation at this point.

There are Int 11 CR2 undead to be had.

Worst case you need a handful of weaker wizards for a particularly massive force, but that easily managed.



Unless under attack, and the undead laborers convert much more quickly, and create fodder for their replacements in combat, if it comes to that. The laborers are all already a military force, there is no conscription or equipping or anything like that required.

This is a bit like how every level 2 ranger can feed 20 people per day with effectively zero labor. The magic system in 5e completely breaks any kind of economy modeled after anything we've seen in the real world. High magic worlds either need tremendously powerful organizations clamping stuff like this down or it becomes a dystopian free for all very, very quickly.

And why exactly do you think the intelligent undead will work around the clock and for free? (And yes, robots are much more intelligent for the specific task they were created for).
The living serf pays you for the privilege to farm your land so that he can feed himself. The undead labourer probably wants to be paid to grow food which is, when done in large quantities, essentially worthless once you have enough as you can't trade it away.
Again, stop thinking in a capitalist, market driven way. That was not how the economy in those times worked.

And if you convert your farmers and craftsmen to soldiers and you lose you have no way to replace them fast and face famine and a lack of labour. Even if you can recover corpses, the cost of creating more undead is prohibitive. So you are best of not to do that.

 

[ph0rk]

And why exactly do you think the intelligent undead will work around the clock and for free?

Because they are bound to the necromancer via Create Undead.

And if you convert your farmers and craftsmen to soldiers and you lose you have no way to replace them fast and face famine and a lack of labour.

There is no famine because you only need to feed a handful of people; possibly as few as one.

With high level magics available, there is no need for serfs, so practices that sustain them (like allowing them to work land) aren't necessary.

 

[Ixal]

Because they are bound to the necromancer via Create Undead.

Which needs to be recasted every 24 hours which costs 150 gold for each 3 ghouls. Not economically at all unless you gather your own onyx and also not sustainable for larger numbers of undead or when they are spread out over a large area like for farming.

There is no famine because you only need to feed a handful of people; possibly as few as one.

With high level magics available, there is no need for serfs, so practices that sustain them (like allowing them to work land) aren't necessary.

Then food is worthless, so why farm it?

 

[ph0rk]

Then food is worthless, so why farm it?

You wouldn't, that's what I said.

You don't need it, and it wouldn't even be worth selling because the serfs that need to eat it don't have money.

In short - any economy resembling what we've had in the real world would collapse with high level magic users in the equation.

Which needs to be recasted every 24 hours which costs 150 gold for each 3 ghouls.

Reread the spell. The onyx is not consumed.

 

[Ixal]

You wouldn't, that's what I said.

You don't need it, and it wouldn't even be worth selling because the serfs that need to eat it don't have money.

In short - any economy resembling what we've had in the real world would collapse with high level magic users in the equation.


Reread the spell. The onyx is not consumed.

Spoiler

Create Undead​

6th-level necromancy

Casting Time:1 minute
Range:10 feet
Components:V, S, M (one clay pot filled with grave dirt, one clay pot filled with brackish water, and one 150 gp black onyx stone for each corpse)
Duration:Instantaneous

You can cast this spell only at night. Choose up to three corpses of Medium or Small humanoids within range. Each corpse becomes a ghoul under your control. (The GM has game statistics for these creatures.)

As a bonus action on each of your turns, you can mentally command any creature you animated with this spell if the creature is within 120 feet of you (if you control multiple creatures, you can command any or all of them at the same time, issuing the same command to each one). You decide what action the creature will take and where it will move during its next turn, or you can issue a general command, such as to guard a particular chamber or corridor. If you issue no commands, the creature only defends itself against hostile creatures. Once given an order, the creature continues to follow it until its task is complete.

The creature is under your control for 24 hours, after which it stops obeying any command you have given it. To maintain control of the creature for another 24 hours, you must cast this spell on the creature before the current 24-hour period ends.

This use of the spell reasserts your control over up to three creatures you have animated with this spell, rather than animating new ones.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a 7th-level spell slot, you can animate or reassert control over four ghouls. When you cast this spell using an 8th-level spell slot, you can animate or reassert control over five ghouls or two ghasts or wights. When you cast this spell using a 9th-level spell slot, you can animate or reassert control over six ghouls, three ghasts or wights, or two mummies.

The SRD makes no mention of the onyx not being consumed. Its a component, not a focus.
And even if that is the case and even if you could reuse the same onyx for multiple undead the need to recast this spell every day makes it unreliable and limits the number of undead that can be created that way.

 

[ph0rk]

The SRD makes no mention of the onyx not being consumed. Its a component, not a focus.

Components are only consumed when the spell says they are: The Rules of Spellcasting | Dungeons & Dragons

And even if that is the case and even if you could reuse the same onyx for multiple undead the need to recast this spell every day

Yes. It takes one minute.


This is no more difficult than what we assume any NPC necromancer is doing.

 

[Stalker0]

The argument is interesting but completely off topic. I’d ask you all to take the labor discussion to its own thread