DnD4.0 vs Warhammer 2nd Edition...a question

[Emirikol]

I actually run my 4E games in the Warhammer world. We've houseruled a couple things for theme and ran with it. It's been a blast, plus I have no shortage of players because 4E is so "desired" over other systems.

Warhammer doesn't coddle PC's like D&D does and that's probably another reason why WFRP isn't more popular than other non-D&D systems. 2.0 warhammer is just like 3.5 AFAIAC except they haven't evolved to the point where there are fewer than 300 skills and a lot of space is taken up in the books by spells, even though they play an almost negligible part in the game.

D&D could take a less on from WFRP however on having more non-magical (aka "martial" classes). It's my one beef with D&D that makes me really appreciate WFRP.

Anyways I've attached my house rulebook if anyone's interested.


jh

 

[Doom]

Would it be the shift from "Drakar och Demoner 5" to "Drakar och Demoner 6" that you are alluding to?

If that is the case, I can verify that that edition change significantly rewrote the rules, more akin to the 3e to 4e edition change.

Yeah, I think that's it--I know no Swedish, so remembering the name is a bit rough for me ("Dragons and Demons", would be my guess, though).

I'm still curious if, beyond anything like DnD4.0, there's any, well, 'American' games that use the word phrase "new edition" this way, as it's also been advanced that "new edition" is slang for "totally new product".

Which is not, in any way, a denigration of anything Swedish.

 

[pawsplay]

Magic, it may feel like the WFRP magic are not dissimilar to the way 4E deals with "At Wills", but considering magic always has at least a 10% backfire rate that really seperates the two.

Now I did not play 1EWFRP, but to me it does stand to reason moving the damage die from 1d6 exploding on a 6 to 1d10 exploding on a 10 made things more grindy. It seems wound amounts were increased taking into account the larger die, but I think they increased wounds too far due lessened frequency of damage explosions.

But they seem to have generally lowered Toughness, so I think it works out fine.

 

[mxyzplk]

No, the WFRP 1e->2e change is more akin to D&D 2e->3e or even slightly less (but not as small as 3->3.5e). The 3.5e->4e jump is way larger.

 

[CapnZapp]

They are roughly compatible... creatures have the same stat blocks. However, there are some subsystem changes, so it's a bit more than 3.0 -> 3.5.

I find that comparison overly generous to 3.5E, which really contained thousands of niggling little changes.

In the sense of overall change of direction and introduction of new mechanics, then yes, you're right.

But WFRP is and has always been a friendly simple game. Nothing on the scale of D&D 3E.

And so I would say the subjective feel for many people is that 3.0->3.5 was a much more difficult transition.

 

[CapnZapp]

No, the WFRP 1e->2e change is more akin to D&D 2e->3e or even slightly less (but not as small as 3->3.5e). The 3.5e->4e jump is way larger.

Again, let's separate conceptual changes from changes in the details.

As long as WFRP remains a decisively simpler game than D&D, all these comparisons will remain misleading, if they scare people away - people like me, who never want to experience a "small rules revision" like 3.5 ever again...

 

[CapnZapp]

and a lot of space is taken up in the books by spells, even though they play an almost negligible part in the game.

I guess you hate 4th Edition D&D then...?

(The PHBs consists mostly of stuff that will never be used in any single game. Class powers, that is. Heck, even if you actually play the class in question, you're going to discard and not use most of it!)

I guess what I want to say is I found the 4E PHB a much more dry read than the WFRP rulebook...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the changes between Shadowrun Editions haven't been little, either.

Damage System:
- IIRC, it started with a powerniveau / damage niveau / damage increase values - the last value represented how many successes on a roll one needed to increase the damage. Damage was represented in Light, Moderate, Serious and Deadly (I am not sure if I use the correct terms), representing different amount of boxes.
- The last number was then simplified away in later editions (at least as early as 3E) and standardized to 2 net successes.
- At least 3E had a fixed number of damage boxes a character could take (always 10)
- 4E made the damage boxes depending on constitution. It also removed the "power niveau" value, and damage was now represented just by the boxes of damage. Each net success increases the damage.

Compare that to D&D changes - hit points always stayed, and while damage values changed, they were still always dice rolls.

Initiative:
- They always kept multiple actions per round in the game, but before 3E, it always meant that all actions of the "fast" characters were added first. In 4E, instead of basing the actions of initiative dice results, it was now a predetermined value depending on your reflex boosting equipment, spells or powers.

Dice Roll System:
- It used to be roll a number of d6 depending on skill/ability and compare each die result with the DC, count "hits". Dice "explode" on a 6. Modifiers apply to the DC.
- Now (4E) it's roll a number of d6 depending on skill/ability and any result of 5 or 6 is a hit. A 6 only explodes if you spend Edge. Difficulty reduce your dice pool and you might need a certain number of hits to succeed.

 

[pawsplay]

I find that comparison overly generous to 3.5E, which really contained thousands of niggling little changes.

In the sense of overall change of direction and introduction of new mechanics, then yes, you're right.

But WFRP is and has always been a friendly simple game. Nothing on the scale of D&D 3E.

And so I would say the subjective feel for many people is that 3.0->3.5 was a much more difficult transition.

I guess I was thinking about it more functionality. As I said, you can still play WFRP 1e modules with WFRP 2e rules, with very little difficulty. The 3.0->3.5 transition was difficult for some, but on the other hand, WFRP replaced their entire spellcasting system.

 

[Ariosto]

I have seen the latest version of WFRP -- is that 2nd?

I enjoyed playing 1st in the late '80s / early '90s.