Do armies in your campaign go around raping, pillaging, and plundering?

[Berandor]

I agree with you, man.

Shortly ago, I wrote a small story on the Fight Club about my characet who was once totally insane. During the course of his insanity, he raped a woman, resulting in his daughter.

When i wrote about the rape, it was very hard for me. I knew what I wrote about, it it made things really diifcult, as I didn't want to soften things, but also didn't want to break loose a controversy.

In the end, I cut away from the scene after my character had physically assaulted the woman, and when he dragged her over to the bed. Still, it was very difficult to read (at least to me), and I don't think such a scene will be portrayed by me in the next stories I write (off board).

I actually think rape can have a stronger impact on the reader than murder, because the victim lives on. It shouldn't be softened up or used without thought in any case.

Berandor

 

[Teflon Billy]

Sorry, but most of the Fantasy Fiction I like best involves rape (though largely off-camera thank goodness), from George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones, to David Gemmel's Waylander series of books.

When medieval armies roll in my games, you can expect rape to be partof their attack.

If you are talking abut removing that, I wonder how you can bring yourself to include killing in your game.

In any event, I guess it has to do with how much 'realism' you want in your sentient races.

 

[Berandor]

I think the question is how the rape is described, and what consequences it has.

If it's just a,
"the army swept through the village, setting buildings on fire and killling all men of able age. They stole the most valuable goods. When all was done, they went and raped the women.

The next day, they marched onwards."

Then I wouldn't think it's suitably portrayed. It shouldn't be glossed over.

Rape IS killing. It kills the soul, and leaves the body (semi-)intact. Either you describe it as the horrible action it is, or you leave it out at all.

Berandor

 

[Tsyr]

I disagree with the notion that all sentient races would only be realistic if rape was portrayed.

I mean, in the first place, I don't think mentioning it is needed at all... you can assume it happened, if you like, no need to go into details.

But beyond that, I have a hard time seeing a dwarf (who as a race tend towards both lawfullness and goodness, and value strong family bonds), or a halfling (who tend towards goodness), or a gnome (who tend towards niceness) rapeing anyone, period. And elf, maybe... they can be rather vindictive at times, and uncaring regarding other races. Orcs? Heck yeah. I doubt many half orcs come out of a romantic relationship, after all.

I mean, would the odd dwarf or gnome maybe rape someone? Possibly. But I would think that as a species they would have a much lower chance of that happening than, say, orcs, or even humans.

 

[UofMDude]

In my campaign soldiers "rape the horses and ride off on the women"

UofMDude

 

[birdboy2000]

Personally, with the exception of drow, I can't see elves raping anyone. Considering how much elves value life, and how raping kills the spirit, I can't see it happening. Humans would, gnomes only would if it was their life quest, kender/halfings and dwarves wouldn't, I think in evil minotaur might, and I still mantain that every half-orc is caused by rape.

 

[Magnus]

first of all, i never said that rape should be cut out of gaming. i was simply trying to suggest that we pay a lil more attention to what that simple word actually means, and not throw it around casually as though it were no more than punctuation, or some fantasy cliché. the point made by Teflon Billy is well taken, death should be taken seriously as well.

but from my gaming experiences, and from stuff that i've read on these boards, it seems that people have more of a handle on how to deal with that. DMs seem to find it easier to approach and find ways to point out to their characters that it should be taken seriously. perhaps this is because death is in evitable, and though while difficult, we all know somewhere inside, that it's a fact of life.

rape on the other hand isn't a given. it also has the potential to be even more devastating than the finality of death. you still have to deal with life even after the actual act is done. you have to continue to live inspite of the death of your soul as has been observed by others. anyway, what do i know.

 

[Humanophile]

Personally, with the exception of drow, I can't see elves raping anyone. Considering how much elves value life, and how raping kills the spirit, I can't see it happening. Humans would, gnomes only would if it was their life quest, kender/halfings and dwarves wouldn't, I think in evil minotaur might, and I still mantain that every half-orc is caused by rape.

I think an issue raised above should be driven home. Soldiers are not, generally, Good People. Especially veteran soldiers (read: the ones who you'd want in an army) tend to become jaded rather quickly, and lose their squishier sides. That's if they had them at all.

And as for demihumans, I could easily see dwarves deciding that rape would be a good move to demoralize the enemy, or an elf deciding that the wishes of a lesser being didn't matter to him. (Ironically, the drow would be less likely to be rapists, as a matriarchy would clamp down on that hard.) I do think that the only trans-racial matter that hasn't come into play so far is the desire of the respective races to take the spoils. As a human, I think I'd pass on those orc girls, while I could easily see an orc warband not caring who's under them so long as they can't fight back.

 

[barsoomcore]

The behaviour of an army can depend not only on the professionalism of the army but also the causes of the war in the first place. A simple war of conquest may not stir up the kinds of emotions that a war of racial or cultural retribution, such as what happened in Rwanda or Bosnia recently.

But any war is a terrifying experience that traumatizes those who go through it, victims and soldiers alike. Len Deighton has a great comment in his novel Bomber: "In war, there are no victors or losers. There are only those who die and those who survive." Or as Glen Cook puts it: "Soldiers live. And wonder why."

As Humanophile notes, soldiers aren't Good People. I would instead say that it's very difficult to be a Good Person when you spend your life surrounded by horror and suffering. Armies in my campaigns are filled with a variety of people, some who try to do the Right Thing and some who revel in the freedom to injure.

But I do try to lay bare the consequences of what happens -- both at a national and a personal level. I find a good way to personalize these horrors is through family -- my PCs often run across family groups where conflict has torn them apart -- even if they're on the same side the pain they've gone through has broken down a lot of the bonds that would normally be there.

In one incident, the party met with a rebel leader whose daughter had been kidnapped by occupying troops. The PCs rescued her and the rest of the captives (and annihilated the occupation company) -- but she'd been raped by her captors and her father cast her out of the family because of her dishonour. Now she works for the intelligence arm of the occupying power, and has served up her own father to their agents.

People rarely behave rationally, even less so when their surroundings have become unstable and frightening. They try to punish themselves for their perceived misdeeds, they strike out at those they care about most and they cannot allow themselves happiness.

I'm rambling. War sucks, anyway. But it does make for great stories.

 

[Magnus]

Soldiers are not, generally, Good People. Especially veteran soldiers (read: the ones who you'd want in an army) tend to become jaded rather quickly, and lose their squishier sides. That's if they had them at all.

i gotta say, i disagree. certainly people (including demihumans) who are of an evil or perhaps a neutral bent would fall into that category. but the good men who take up arms to defend against them most certainly do not. and while it is true that prolonged war does have the abilty to make good men jaded. it shouldn't be assumed that it does do that to all of them. (of course this assumes a typical fantasy setting.)