D&D 5E Do Assassins suck?

[Flamestrike]

The problem with it, even when you do set it up, is simple math:

Just a typical situation off the top of my head, you may get a 60% chance to hide, 84% chance to hit (advantage accounted for), 60% chance to win initiative:

An Assasin will have expertise to Stealth, and presuming feats, have Alert by 4th level (granting a +8-9 to initiative), and +9 or so to Stealth).

It's the set-up that is the harder part.

 

[Zardnaar]

An Assasin will have expertise to Stealth, and presuming feats, have Alert by 4th level (granting a +8-9 to initiative), and +9 or so to Stealth).

It's the set-up that is the harder part.

I've heard XBE is also great feat for assassin's.

 

[Flamestrike]

I've heard XBE is also great feat for assassin's.

MCing Gloomstalker ranger.

Adds +Wis to initiative, grants an extra attack in the first round, an extra 1d8 damage (2d8 on a crit), a fighting style, favored foe, invisibility in darkness, darkvision, plus spellcasting for 3 levels.

 

[Zardnaar]

MCing Gloomstalker ranger.

Adds +Wis to initiative, grants an extra attack in the first round, an extra 1d8 damage (2d8 on a crit), a fighting style, favored foe, invisibility in darkness, darkvision, plus spellcasting for 3 levels.

I exclude MC because while great PCs it's not because of the assassin at least by itself.

And yeah MCing can create better PCs.

 

[guachi]

Others have hit on why the Assassin is weak. It doesn't scratch the Assassin itch enough.

My faves are Scout and Swashbuckler. They feel like what it says on the tin.

 

[Horwath]

MCing Gloomstalker ranger.

Adds +Wis to initiative, grants an extra attack in the first round, an extra 1d8 damage (2d8 on a crit), a fighting style, favored foe, invisibility in darkness, darkvision, plus spellcasting for 3 levels.

and there lies the problem. Feat tax, MC tax. That is not good design.

Is there a need for that though? A special abilitiy that grants advantage AND auto-crits is insanely powerful.

Limiting it to only surprised creatures, that have yet to take a turn, is a reasonable limiter on it.

All it requires is set up, and a decent initiative roll.

Yes.

If you set up your surprise, you should not count on initiative to get that crit attack. Winning initiative should be just extra on top.
That is why I said that in 2nd round(if you act before your SURPRISED target), you get advantage to attacks(NO auto crits in this round). But that just saves you bonus action to hide.

 

[Flamestrike]

If you set up your surprise, you should not count on initiative to get that crit attack.

I disagree. We're talking about advantage AND automatic crits.

It should require both set up AND an ability check to pull off.

 

[Horwath]

I disagree. We're talking about advantage AND automatic crits.

It should require both set up AND an ability check to pull off.

at 3rd level, ONCE per encounter, for 11 extra damage you should pass; 1st ability check(stealth), 2nd ability check(initiative), 3rd attack roll.

3 rolls for extra 11 damage? Isn't 2 checks(stealth+attack roll) enough?

 

[S'mon]

If you set up your surprise, you should not count on initiative to get that crit attack.

I GM it that if the opponent is completely unaware of the attack or any other threat, then the attack happens pre-combat, before init is rolled; and they count as Surprised. I don't have characters rolling init when they're unaware of any danger. That helps out Assassins in effect.

 

[Horwath]

I GM it that if the opponent is completely unaware of the attack or any other threat, then the attack happens pre-combat, before init is rolled; and they count as Surprised. I don't have characters rolling init when they're unaware of any danger. That helps out Assassins in effect.

that is how we roll also.

Either you invest in Perception or get trashed in ambushes.