Do attacks granted from a Sustained Range Power grant Opportunity Attacks?

[Hazard_53188]

I know that when you attack with a ranged power that you are subject to opportunity attacks.

I'm less clear on whether you also grant opportunity attacks in subsequent rounds when you attack again with that power because you are maintaining it via a sustain action.

Specifically the two powers that my players often use in this category are flaming sphere and spiritual hammer.

 

[abyssaldeath]

There is no rules that specifically states whether you do or not. The consensus is that since the PHB says that you provoke an OA when you use a ranged or area power you will not provoke when you sustain because the power has already been used.

 

[Hazard_53188]

Thanks for the quick response.

Does the PHB actually say that ranged 'powers' provoke OA rather than ranged 'attacks'?

Anyway, since there is no official rule on this I think I'm inclined to rule against the consensus for a number of reasons:

1. You are still using the power to attack even though it has already been "cast". It's just that you are using it in a subsequent round. I.e., they typically say something like Substain {action}: As an {action} you make another attack.
2. Since it says nothing about the rules for that attack (type of, range, etc.), the original characteristics should still apply.
3. There is nothing that excludes attacks generated by sustained powers from provoking OAs.

 

[Caliban]

There is no rules that specifically states whether you do or not. The consensus is that since the PHB says that you provoke an OA when you use a ranged or area power you will not provoke when you sustain because the power has already been used.

That's not any consus I was part of, exactly how many people does it take to make a "consensus" anyway.

After the last thread on this, dealing with it in my own game, and trading e-mails back and forth with Customer Service for a few days, I've come to the conclusion that attacking with a power is a form of "Using" the power for this purpose. The power only provokes if it is taking your action to make the attack (powers such as Flaming Sphere and Bigby's Grasping Hand), but does not provoke if it does not take an action on your part for it to attack (Freezing Cloud).


Hypersmurf has a few very long and complicated abstract "What if" scenarios (as he does for most rules issues) that make it sound very ambigous, but this works for me.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Direct Quote from PHB

✦ Ranged and Area Powers Provoke: If an enemy adjacent to you uses a ranged power or an area power, you can make an opportunity attack against
that enemy.

Sustained Durations: An effect that has a “sustain standard,” a “sustain move,” or a “sustain minor” duration lasts as long as you sustain it. Starting on the turn after you create an effect, you sustain the effect by taking the indicated action: a standard action, a move action, or a minor action. (You can sustain an effect once per turn.) Some effects do something, such as attack, when you sustain them. A power’s description indicates what happens when you sustain it or let it lapse. At the end of your turn, if you haven’t spent the required action to sustain the effect, the effect ends.

The reason the consensus is it doesn't is because sustaining a power is not the same as using. Sustain appears to be it's own type of action. Where before you had Standard Action, Ranged or Area you now have Sustain Standard, move or minor.

You of course can rule which ever way you like, but you may end up ensuring that the Wizard is going to gets Shimmering armor so he won't be subjected to OA's left and right. YMMV

 

[Mengu]

I don't think there is any consensus on this. PHB says all range powers provoke opportunity attack, I've houseruled it to all range attack powers provoke opportunity attacks.

I use a more liberal (what I feel is RAI) interpretation. The first attack provokes because you are creating a sphere, weapon, hand, etc. at range and attacking with it. Subsequent rounds, you are simply directing the sphere, weapon, or hand to attack, so I've ruled it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.

It really doesn't come into play that much since majority of wizards tend to try and stay out of melee any way, so either ruling will work. When in doubt, I tend to err in favor of the players.

 

[Caliban]

Direct Quote from PHB




The reason the consensus is it doesn't is because sustaining a power is not the same as using. Sustain appears to be it's own type of action. Where before you had Standard Action, Ranged or Area you now have Sustain Standard, move or minor.

You of course can rule which ever way you like, but you may end up ensuring that the Wizard is going to gets Shimmering armor so he won't be subjected to OA's left and right. YMMV

I don't think that word (consensus) means what you think it means.

I said that I believe attacking with the power would count at "using" it for this purpose. I said nothing about sustaining it. Sustaining wouldn't provoke, because that's not using the power, just maintaining it.

And when I asked Customer Service, they did say that attacking with it would provoke, which is partly what I'm basing my ruling on.

 

[Hazard_53188]

I don't think that word (consensus) means what you think it means.

I said that I believe attacking with the power would count at "using" it for this purpose. I said nothing about sustaining it. Sustaining wouldn't provoke, because that's not using the power, just maintaining it.

And when I asked Customer Service, they did say that attacking with it would provoke, which is partly what I'm basing my ruling on.

It sounds like I'm rehashing an old debate. Sorry about that.

There are some powers that say something similiar to:
"As a {action} you sustain the effect. As a standard action you make another attack."

There are others that say something similiar to:
"As a {action} you sustain the effect and make another attack."

So would you rule that the first provokes OA but the second does not?

Sorry for not having concrete power examples here since I'm away from my book.

 

[Hazard_53188]

Direct Quote from PHB




The reason the consensus is it doesn't is because sustaining a power is not the same as using. Sustain appears to be it's own type of action. Where before you had Standard Action, Ranged or Area you now have Sustain Standard, move or minor.

You of course can rule which ever way you like, but you may end up ensuring that the Wizard is going to gets Shimmering armor so he won't be subjected to OA's left and right. YMMV

Those are great quotes thanks and certainly see how that also makes sense.

 

[Caliban]

It sounds like I'm rehashing an old debate. Sorry about that.

There are some powers that say something similiar to:
"As a {action} you sustain the effect. As a standard action you make another attack."

There are others that say something similiar to:
"As a {action} you sustain the effect and make another attack."

So would you rule that the first provokes OA but the second does not?

Sorry for not having concrete power examples here since I'm away from my book.

Right now, my rule of thumb is "if it costs you an action to make the attack, and it's a ranged power, it provokes an Opportunity Attack"

Merely sustaining it doesn't provoke, but if the minor action of sustaining it also includes making an attack, then I would say it provokes.

This works for me until I see some more official clarification from WOTC.