Lucas Blackstone
Explorer
I'm glad I wasn't imagining things and that the intent was for THP to function with minions. I was fairly sure I wasn't making it up to defend minions everywhere.
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Do automatic hit abilities kill minions?
- Thread starter Tidus4444
- Start date
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I disagree that you can determine the "intent" from a single answer from Ask Wizards, particular given the implications of that answer.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, if damage of any amount or from any source destroys a minion, as per DMG p55, and they survive a hit due to temp hp, then ...
By extension, reducing temp hp does not count as dealing damage.
Which is silly.
By extension, reducing temp hp does not count as dealing damage.
Which is silly.
No more silly than the idea that gaining temp hp does not count as healing.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
That you do not "damage" something if all you did was reduce its temporary hit points.
"Damage" is a term used throughout the rules, and will continue to be used as new supplements are published. This "answer" will cause more and more problems with temporary hit points, particularly since they seem to be adding a lot of abilities that grant temporary hit points. They do not want to go down the road of redefining damage as something that must reduce actual hit points as opposed to any hit points (actual or temporary).
For example...powers often say you roll damage. In fact the core mechanic says "If your check was an attack, you roll damage" But, now damage doesn't include reducing temporary hit points, or you didn't do any damage if you didn't reduce actual hit points? OK, then anything that says it does damage does not come off your temporary hit points, making temporary hit points mostly useless. All those powers that say "1dx + Y modifier damage ignore temporary hit points? Your strength score gives a bonus to your damage rolls...so does it not count if the creature has temporary hit points, or does it ignore temporary hit points and come off your real hit points?
They really didn't mean to redefine the term "damage" with their Ask Wizards answer. But, if you accept their answer, then the minion text needs errata to change the word from "damage" to "damage to their actual hit points, rather than temporary hit points". Accepting the Ask Wizards answer and the minion text RAW at the same time really messes with a lot of other things.
Last edited:
Fede
First Post
I think that at this point it's probably easier to ignore "any amount or from any source destroys a minion", and simply look at what the statblock says:
HP 1; a missed attack can't damage a minion
In this way the temp hp rules are coherent with the normal monsters, minions still work the same way as before and there are no silly implications about non-damage.
Am i missing something?
HP 1; a missed attack can't damage a minion
In this way the temp hp rules are coherent with the normal monsters, minions still work the same way as before and there are no silly implications about non-damage.
Am i missing something?
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
The rules function fine if you play it that way. However, they do not function fine if "damage" means only "reducing actual hit points, and not temporary hit points". Because far too many things say they do damage or increase damage, and since it isn't damage if it just comes off of temporary hit points (under this "answer") hundreds of powers and feats and weapons and classes just got re-worked in a pretty wonky way.
Yes, good DM strategy in keeping minions alive and actually using all of a monster's powers to benefit the monsters. I look at temp HP as a "trumping" effect, just like so many other special abilities because granting them is just that.
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