Do characters know what spell levels and HP are?

[wedgeski]

I agree with everyone else. These are two wildly different questions. Spell levels, circles, whatever... there's a lot of mileage in wizards categorizing the most powerful spells in ways which make them exclusive. But hit points? Nah.

 

[Victim]

I'd think that hitpoints would be understood in the sense that some people and things are tougher or reliably avoid serious damage but are harder to fully heal. I don't think that there'd be a quantified understanding like Wickett suggests though.

I do think that spell levels would be quantified, but there might be several different theories that explain spell levels and caster level. There might be adherents of Mordenkainen's Quantum Theory (the electron shell model) argueing and spell dueling with students of Tenser who hold to his N-dimensional compression model (which thinks of spells as shapes in increasingly higher order geometries). It's like theoretical physics (complete with brain busting math), but the top guys make their own tac nukes. The reasons many casters don't talk about magic stuff to normal people has more to do with mutual interest (or lack thereof) than keeping mystic secrets. Most people aren't going to want to deal with the complexity and jargon of arcane lore - especially since they aren't getting the pratical reality manipulation tricks. And most wizards aren't going to want to bother explaining things at the third grade level all the time.

 

[Sejs]

Hit points, vaguely, Oh, he's a veteran warrior. That guy's tough as nails. Soandso's got a glass jaw, etc. It's not so much a measure of Widgets Expendable Before Death as it is a rough approximation of badassery.

Spell levels, definitely. Or more to the point, people with ranks in Spellcraft do. People without any functional knowledge of the mechanics of magic tend to lump spells into broad categories similar to those found in Detect Magic: lesser magics are spell levels 0-3, 'average' magics are 4-6 and major magics are 7-9. Anything into the epic range is the sort of thing that's so legendary that most people believe it wouldn't be possible for one person to do; make mountains fly, plunge entire nations into darkness, etc. For folks in the know, however, spell level is a much more concrete thing. To steal a book from Sep's page: valences. Tiered ranks of magical complexity that one must be possessed of X mental flexibility in order to juggle all the components of, in order to bring the spell into effect.

 

[Seonaid]

I do think that spell levels would be quantified, but there might be several different theories that explain spell levels and caster level. There might be adherents of Mordenkainen's Quantum Theory (the electron shell model) argueing and spell dueling with students of Tenser who hold to his N-dimensional compression model (which thinks of spells as shapes in increasingly higher order geometries). It's like theoretical physics (complete with brain busting math).

Huh. That is really cool. I really like that idea. And it definitely makes sense.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I agree with everyone else. These are two wildly different questions. Spell levels, circles, whatever... there's a lot of mileage in wizards categorizing the most powerful spells in ways which make them exclusive. But hit points? Nah.

Reminds me of the reason, why wizards definitively know about spell levels: They count the pages in their spellbooks.

 

[Megatron]

No, neither, never.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'd think that hitpoints would be understood in the sense that some people and things are tougher or reliably avoid serious damage but are harder to fully heal. I don't think that there'd be a quantified understanding like Wickett suggests though.

I wouldn't call it quantified, but I'd figure a veteran Fighter is capable of knowing how much abuse he can take, how much healing he needs after he's taken a combat nap, and roughly where he stands between bleeding edge and bleeding out. It's something that people need to know in order to survive combat or function in any physically demanding role.

I use a number of rules that make it fuzzier-- action points, MDT, and so on-- to keep it from being as cut-and-dried as logical worldbuilding would make it.

The way I reconcile character level and hit points-- and other cool level benefits-- is in natural stores of magical energy and flexibility in channelling it. (Which is also why spellcasters have low hit points and lame combat skills; they're channeling the energy externally.) Figure this goes a long way to why healing magic works so slowly on high-level characters... you're not sealing the wounds, you're refreshing the magic pool which causes the wounds to seal themselves.

Still working on the intersection between Surgery and magical healing. Leaning on a cross between Black Company's surgery rules (nonlethal damage conversion) and d20 Modern's, with dramatically nerfed healing spells, since they do double-duty after someone's gone under the knife.

Since my setting is pretty advanced, as far as technology and scientific theories go, I figure characters have a pretty good understanding of these things once they're high enough level to notice or if they have skills denoting an academic education or knowledge of magical theory, and a good practical understanding of those facets which they deal with.

For folks in the know, however, spell level is a much more concrete thing. To steal a book from Sep's page: valences. Tiered ranks of magical complexity that one must be possessed of X mental flexibility in order to juggle all the components of, in order to bring the spell into effect.

Absolutely. This was a stroke of brilliance on Sepulchrave's part.

The reasons many casters don't talk about magic stuff to normal people has more to do with mutual interest (or lack thereof) than keeping mystic secrets. ... And most wizards aren't going to want to bother explaining things at the third grade level all the time.

The two different explanations work very well together, too. Wizards don't have the time to explain the intricacies of spell theory all the time, and even less inclination.

 

[Aus_Snow]

How can you know what HP are when their loss has NO EFFECT on you until you hit 0?

Yes, that's rhetorical.


Anyway, I agree with Crothian here. Spell levels, it makes perfect sense for a mage to be completely aware of. Intimately familiar with, really.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

Reminds me of the reason, why wizards definitively know about spell levels: They count the pages in their spellbooks.

Yep. Power Word: Stun, seven pages. That's a seventh level spell, yup, yup.

 

[Crothian]

Yep. Power Word: Stun, seven pages. That's a seventh level spell, yup, yup.

I think instead of level though they might just uses spell pages. "Darn, that wizard has five page spells!! We're in trouble now!!"