Do failed spells cause "tingles"?

[occam]

Do you use or ignore this rule?

Succeeding on a Saving Throw

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.

This can cause story problems for things that ought to be surreptitious. For example, it can really limit the long-term success of a doppelganger or rakshasa under deep cover using detect thoughts. And what a waste for the evil sorcerer to cast a silent & still charm person, say, and be unable to get around a primitive auto-detection.

Don't you sometimes want a character to get a spell off totally undetected, even if there's no effect due to a successful save? Is there an essential game balance reason it works this way?

 

[Geoff Watson]

I think it's so the victim has a chance to defend himself. If such a spell was completely undetectable, the spellcaster could just keep trying until the victim fails his save. The victim won't necessarily identify the spellcaster, but might be able to do something about it.

Geoff.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Generally, yes. However, I created a feat for those who wish to conceal their spellwork.

Subtle Spellcasting

You can make your spells undetectable, even to those that resist the effects of your spells.
Prerequisites: Arcane or divine caster level 5, Spellcraft 8 ranks, Concentration 8 ranks.
Benefit: When you cast a spell or use a spell-like ability with no visible emanation from yourself, you can make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + 2x the level of the spell, 0-level spells = +1) to eliminate the mental tingle associated with a successful saving throw. Casting a spell like this is difficult however, and requires a successful concentration check (Same DC). If the first check fails, your spell is detectable, as normal. If the Concentration check fails, you lose the spell as if disrupted.


An alternate way a friend considered was to make it a Metamagic feat (no spell level adjustment) with a focus worth 15 or 25gp per spell level expended to making it "stealthed".

EDIT: I should add that the feat is still in development, and not the final product. I'm not entirely happy with it yet.

 

[MarkB]

I believe there is already such a feat, possibly in Complete Arcane or Races of Eberron. I'm not sure if it's a racial feat. I'll try and track it down this evening.

Personally, I approve of the rule. From a realism perspective, anything which requires an act of will to shake off, a strong constitution to resist, or quick reflexes to dodge should be detectable to the subject. And from a rules perspective, you're making an attack on the subject, and not even dedicated sneak-classes like rogues get to do that and remain undetected without immense feats of stealth.

 

[shilsen]

Do you use or ignore this rule?

I always use that rule and like it a lot. It requires spellcasters, both PCs and NPCs, to think more carefully when using magic. A PC/NPC who can use, for example, Detect Thoughts at will would otherwise have no reason not to use it constantly, and would always be able to get through even the most strong-minded of targets, because everyone fails a save on a 1 and without the 'tingle,' the spellcaster can use the ability with impunity and never a chance of being detected.

And what a waste for the evil sorcerer to cast a silent & still charm person, say, and be unable to get around a primitive auto-detection.

Note that the 'tingle' doesn't tell the target what magical effect it was and what the source was. The fact that a PC/NPC can realize that magic was used on him but not realize the source opens up a lot more interesting options, IMNSHO, than a completely undetectable use of magic.

Don't you sometimes want a character to get a spell off totally undetected, even if there's no effect due to a successful save?

No. I want a character to make the tough decision of risking the spell being detected on a save, and to balance that with the awareness that while the spell is detected, he might not be.

Is there an essential game balance reason it works this way?

Yes. Spellcasters would be even more powerful than they already are, without this rule. Plus, as I said above, I think it adds a useful element of complexity and choice to the game and makes things substantially more interesting than if surreptitious magic was totally undetectable, save or no save.

YMMV, and apparently does.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Yeah, I can see that. I'd be interested to ee the existing feat though, so I can compare my own to it.

I'm creating this one for a player who wants stealth-casting. I'm still not entirely sure about it. Maybe I'll limit it to Mind-affecting spells and Divinations (it seems more suitable that way).

 

[Vrecknidj]

I usually use something of that sort. If it would cause greater tension and more fun to have a failed spell go unnoticed, then I have it go unnoticed.

Dave

 

[TheGogmagog]

It's worth noting that although the target knows that they shrugged off some compulsion (or whatever). They don't necessarily know the source.

It may take some diplomacy to tell the suspected BBEG, to hang on while I cast detect magic and continue our discussion.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Do you use or ignore this rule?

Ignore the rule? Never! I like the suspense of saying, "Galert felt something try to assault him, but now it's gone.

Suspense makes the game more fun.

Besides, I like what MarkB says in his post above. To make a save, you have to do something. I don't make a reflex save without getting out of the way. I don't make a WILL save or a FORT save without mustering up the inner strength to do so. At least by my understanding of botht he rules and the game mechanics, saves are not done passively by a player. They are done actively. Now, people are free to disagree, but I play the game with active saves in mind.

 

[MarkB]

I believe there is already such a feat, possibly in Complete Arcane or Races of Eberron. I'm not sure if it's a racial feat. I'll try and track it down this evening.

I was misremembering - the one I was thinking of is Persona Immersion, a Changeling racial feat which effectively does the reverse. It lets a character who successfully saves against a divination spell or information-gathering psionic power pretend to have been affected, and generate a false impression.