Do grognards have to be jerks?

[Retreater]

Just got back from GenCon and had a pretty good time. One thing I noticed however was that at almost every event there was someone talking about how the latest version of game x was terrible and that the true version was an older edition and that I should try to find the OOP rules. (This happened with several game systems, so I'm not criticizing the fans of any one game here.)

One grognard went so far as to compare a game company to the Nazis and say that anyone who purchased their current products were mindless sheep - and of course I had a bag of their stuff by my chair.

My experience is the opposite with players who embrace change and new editions of games. They tend to be outgoing and not as insulting in one's choice of game.

Your experiences?

 

[Reynard]

I predict a rational and fair discussion on the topic.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's part of the contract you sign upon becoming a grognard: there is an actual clause requiring us to be jerks.

(Whippersnapper.)

What I think you're running into is that, after a certain age, many people loose their fear of expressing their opinions in public. I also think that there has been a general decline in the level of civility in discourse, and it seems contagious. Combined? You get people calling game designers "Nazis."

 

[Reynard]

It's part of the contract you sign upon becoming a grognard: there is an actual clause requiring us to be jerks.

Whippersnapper.

I thought it was a requirement for the PrC.

 

[Nagol]

And you're standing on my lawn...

 

[delericho]

My experience is the opposite with players who embrace change and new editions of games. They tend to be outgoing and not as insulting in one's choice of game.

Your experiences?

There are jerks in both camps. Not many in either camp, but they tend to be really vocal.

The OSR guys tend to be fewer in number, and maybe a bit more obsessed (they pretty much have to be - they're having to homebrew almost everything from the rules upwards, since there's no official support), so maybe have a higher percentage of jerks.

But there are some modernists who are really obnoxious. And since there are so many more of them, there are probably more jerks (in strictly numerical terms).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Just got back from GenCon and had a pretty good time. One thing I noticed however was that at almost every event there was someone talking about how the latest version of game x was terrible and that the true version was an older edition and that I should try to find the OOP rules. (This happened with several game systems, so I'm not criticizing the fans of any one game here.)

One grognard went so far as to compare a game company to the Nazis and say that anyone who purchased their current products were mindless sheep - and of course I had a bag of their stuff by my chair.

My experience is the opposite with players who embrace change and new editions of games. They tend to be outgoing and not as insulting in one's choice of game.

Your experiences?

You see the same thing in video games.

With StarCraft II, 10+ years after the release of the fantastically popular Brood War (which is still widely played) came the new game on the block.

Naturally the new game did some things differently than the old game. And naturally people complained about it. But after awhile, it became obvious that many things weren't going to be changed back.

So rather than just say "I won't buy the new game" and leave it at that, some of the old community continued to denigrate the new game, complaining they've changed it now it sucks, demanding unrealistic changes to the old ways, signing petitions demanding changes, promoting boycotts, making personal attacks on the designers, etc. Whatever happened to "vote with your pocketbook"?

(On that note, on a forum I visited often, there were many jerks on the "don't change things side" but also a sizable number on the "fanboi/hate the older gamers" side. Forums and cons are self-selecting, so only those with stronger views appear, and negative opinions appear more often than positive ones. It's too bad you can't use an "ignore list" at a con!)

Video game forum fights are much like edition wars. Those threads will never go away, short of perma-banning everyone who takes part in them. And then you won't have a forum, since you're banning the only ones who show up - those with strong opinions.

 

[Umbran]

I don't think it is that grognards have to be jerks. I think it is that a significant portion of the geek community is (willfully or not) deficient in some basic communication and etiquette skills.

 

[Abraxas]

delericho beat me to it.

The jerks are everywhere, it's just that jerks that like the same things you like seem less offensive than those that don't. I had one fellow ask why in the world I would want a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia when 4E was a much better game

 

[Mark CMG]

It's a shame that discussion of the pros and cons of systems old and new cannot take place without a handful of people resorting to name calling and/or claims that either traditional or new approaches do not have their merits. The thread title is an example of that sort of extremism as was the experience of the OP.