Do hirelings steal XP?

[aboyd]

My players (3rd & 4th level, mostly) have no meat shields, so they hired on 3 3rd level henchmen. These guys are goofballs (they're being played like the 3 stooges, although they do get a few good wallops off here & there).

I would like to know how they figure into XP calculations. Do I include them when I divide by the # of party members? They don't get an XP award themselves, though, right?

Also, on the opinion side of things, if these 3 NPCs are being played as comic relief who happen to fight well now & then, would you as a DM change the XP awards in any way?

 

[pawsplay]

If they are paid hirelings, they are simply an expendable, like potions or scrolls. They don't get a share of XP. Instead, they get a share of XP equal to half that of the most closely associated PC in the group, per the DMG.

If they get a full share of treasure and have independent goals for adventuring, they count as adventuring NPCs and do get a share of XP.

 

[irdeggman]

DMG pg 105

Thus, even if they go on an advneture with the PCs, they gain no experience and do not affect any calculations involving the party level.

Now there is a fine line between when an "friend" is a hireling or an ally.

Allies are NPCs that can be considered party members or not depeending on the DM's call and how much the party relies on them.

Cohorts recieve xp based on their leader and do not drain the party's xp pool.

Followers do not receive xp nor do they count in any manner towards xp or treasure share.

 

[aboyd]

If it helps, to clarify, these are not Followers nor Cohorts as per the Leadership feat. There are simply hired mercenaries. They are usually something like 8 silvers a day, however the DMG says you pay triple if you hire them only short term. So each has a day rate of around 2.7 gp (from memory, probably not perfectly accurate).

They have no loyalty to the group, and while I'm allowing a player to control them right now, I'll wrest control if he ever puts them into a situation that might guarantee death (they're not paid enough to die for any cause).

 

[pawsplay]

The DMG is sort of unclear, but my reading is that the Leadership is the usual way to acquire a Cohort, but you can hire one, as well. It is a different brand of loyalty. Because these guys are not independently motivated, they are not "allies." Since they are higher level and more versatile than hired grunts, I'd say they use Cohort rules.

In previous editions, hiring help at or above your own level could come at a premium, since otherwise they would expect to be assisting you, not putting their own lives on the line for amateurs.

 

[aboyd]

DMG pg 105

Thanks for that. I mostly agree with it -- they don't get any XP, because they're not the actual adventuring party taking all the risks.

My question is like this. If you have 3 new characters and they take down a CR 3 monster, they get 900 XP divided among them. So 300 XP each. Now let's say those same 3 characters come into a little cash but are still 1st level. They pay for 3 hirelings. They all go into combat and defeat another CR 3 monster. The 3 player characters get 900 XP to divide among themselves? So, another 300 XP each, even though the battle was visibly easier due to the help? That would seem to be the case, since not only do the hirelings not get XP, but they don't even appear to dilute the XP award.

My thinking was maybe to divide the 900 XP by 6 but then only give the XP (150) to the 3 PCs. Unfortunately, I haven't been DMing 3.5 edition long enough to know what I screw up when I try something like that. Have you guys run across this? Was your solution to award full shares even if there were hirelings? Maybe they should be treated like summoned monsters. Those things help win battles, but they don't diminish XP shares. Perhaps I should just go by the book.

 

[akbearfoot]

You should scrap XP awards altogether...Tell the PCs when they can level up. If players take crafting feats, then award them a small amount of exp each level to use in crafting, whatever amount seems reasonable and non-abusive.


Completely takes the focus away from 'zomg we need to kill 2 more squirrels to level' mentality, and allows the players to focus more on the story. If the PCs say they feel like its been to long between levels then you can raise them up and adjust your story. Otherwise you probably have an idea how tuff you want your monsters and what magic you want the PCs to have access to.

We're running Age of Wyrms atm. We're basically always running even to 1 level behind module expectations, with 6 strong PCs. The GM keeps rough totals so we get awarded exp about every 3-4 sessions. Way better in my opinion. Less obsession over exp.

 

[irdeggman]

Thanks for that. I mostly agree with it -- they don't get any XP, because they're not the actual adventuring party taking all the risks.

My question is like this. If you have 3 new characters and they take down a CR 3 monster, they get 900 XP divided among them. So 300 XP each. Now let's say those same 3 characters come into a little cash but are still 1st level. They pay for 3 hirelings. They all go into combat and defeat another CR 3 monster. The 3 player characters get 900 XP to divide among themselves? So, another 300 XP each, even though the battle was visibly easier due to the help? That would seem to be the case, since not only do the hirelings not get XP, but they don't even appear to dilute the XP award.

My thinking was maybe to divide the 900 XP by 6 but then only give the XP (150) to the 3 PCs. Unfortunately, I haven't been DMing 3.5 edition long enough to know what I screw up when I try something like that. Have you guys run across this? Was your solution to award full shares even if there were hirelings? Maybe they should be treated like summoned monsters. Those things help win battles, but they don't diminish XP shares. Perhaps I should just go by the book.

While the encounter is easier it is using "resources".

That is the PCs are using their income to pay for the NPCs and the NPCs are using their resources in the encounter (HPs, spells, etc) - for which they should be charging the PCs to replenish.

So basically it should even out in the long run. The PCs are using resources at a greater rate then they "think" they are. Resources are not merely hit points.

There should technically be no adjustment in the xp awards for the encounter.

Now I treat cohorts as something different in the fact that I count them when calculating the party EL. But cohorts are in general higher level and more powerful than any hireling or follower the PCs can get.

 

[Stormborn]

The way I handle it is this:

Hirelings do not effect XP at all. The reason being is that the PCs have already lost gp to use them, they should not loose XP as well. As someone else pointed out, hirelings are expendables just like scrolls or potions. However, if the hirelings are particularlly effective, or contribute significantly, then they naturally cost more. In my opinion, the 3sp per day trained hireling mercenary is a 1st level Warrior given guard duty. If you send him on caravan duty in a dangerous area he should get at least 5 - 6 sp. If you expect him to go into a dungeon then he should be asking for at least 1gp per day, rations, and maybe some share of any valuables recovered -although he is probablly not worth it. The 1st level fighter is going to start out at a higher rate and just go from there. Basically, have the effectivness of hireling reduce the PC's gp, not XP; or, as is sometimes the case in my games, have them added as a roleplay reward (the PC's convinced the captain of the guard there was danger to the city so he send some of his best men along, etc.).

EDIT: If they are spell casters its going to cost a whole lot more. Why should those wizards in town get such nice boons for spellcasting services and the mercenary sorcerer get a pittance? Generally spellcasters in my games are not available for hire on more than a spell by spell basis, although at higher levels a large squad of hirelings might include a low level cleric, whose job it is to take care of his squad and not the PCs, or a sorcerer whose job is to buff the squad.


Allies are a different matter. I count them as party members for the purposes of XP. I frequently use them to shore up defeciences in the party on a case by case basis.