D&D General Do I need an attitude adjustment? (They're gonna nova the BBEG)

[Khelon Testudo]

IMHO the whole point of playing Ravenloft is to be scared of the bad guys. So you totally have license to make them more powerful, if that makes them scary.

 

[Monayuris]

The adventure is Curse of Strahd, and I particularly hate seeing Strahd go down with a whimper. I do have a souped-up version of him that I was planning to use, but the fight would be more exciting if the PCs didn't have ALL of their tricks.

The reason he can't come to the PCs right this moment is because he's currently getting married. (My campaign is deviating pretty far from the book in some ways.) Not to Ireena--she's being played as a PC--but to Esmae Amarantha, who spent last year's campaign transforming herself into the likeness of Tatyana. He also has a hostage: Ireena's brother Ismark, who has already been bitten twice. My plan was for Strahd to spring a surprise during the ceremony: He'd bring out Ismark and threaten to have Esmae give him the third bite immediately before the congregation unless Ireena agreed to step forward and marry him as well. However, once the PCs got into the castle, they made a beeline for the crypts, which they spent a whole session systematically looting one by one. When Cyrus Belview came down to say the ceremony was starting, the PCs gleefully shoved him into the tomb reserved for Ireena, shut the door, and went back to looting.

Important note:, But the reason I left it vague is because I'm not so much looking for mechanical suggestions on how to make things more challenging ... yet. I have a few ideas about that, but I'm debating myself philosophically as to whether I even should try to make things more challenging, or whether thadt's just me trying to get in the way of the fun the group wants to have.

I don't know all too much about Curse of Strahd. But I've always thought that Ravenloft was his domain. Nothing happens in Ravenloft without his knowledge or consent. Of course, if players use an effective strategy you should just run with it. The players out-thought you and they deserve the victory. But at the same time, you have to think about the world at large.

It is one thing to reward a clever strategy... but it is another when players are simply abusing a loophole or game element that unfairly stacks the deck in their favor.

Would Strahd not find out that a bunch of PCs are running around HIS castle and HIS domain and resting and taking solace and succor at will without fear of repercussions?

Maybe not to pull a gotcha under the PCs but maybe there is a reason Strahd wants a well rested group of PCs to confront him. Maybe he has a use for them or a proposition that would be compelling to the PCs (that should point them to helping eliminate a potentially mutual threat and at the same time wear down the party such that they are not at full strength should he need to fight them).

 

[werecorpse]

You wanting to make it challenging isn’t getting in the way of their fun. It is making it more fun. You are doing what you can to stick the campaign landing. A final boss fight that is too easy is like a final season of a beloved television show that is too rushed - it can undermine the enjoyable memories of the whole campaign. The final fight doesn’t have to be the best of the campaign but it shouldn't be too easy. Your aim is to make it challenging but to make it so they have a good chance of winning. That’s bringing the fun.

It seems there is a time sensitive event that they are aware of - this should be enough to discourage waiting. make sure they know what will happen if they wait an extra 8 hours and turn up after the big bad has committed his act of evil - created an ally, damned a soul whatever. Then if they do wait have it happen.

 

[Flamestrike]

Anyway, the main thing is that I feel like the players completely have the upper hand, and I'm not sure what is the best way to respond to that. How do I balance what's fun for my players with what's fun for me?

It's not that I want to kill PCs, but I'd like to make the climax of the campaign tense and memorable. I'd like the players to have to use abilities they don't usually have to pull out, and maybe be inventive sometimes.

Sorry for the long post. Any thoughts or advice will be carefully considered.

Put. Them. On. A. Doom. Clock.

Doom clocks drive the adventure, create tension and stop them exploiting the 5 minute adventuring day.

Which are literally your three biggest worries.

 

[Argyle King]

I'm not sure if this makes you feel any better, but most groups I've played with have had an easy time against Strahd. He was nowhere near as difficult as the jackal-headed demon thing in an earlier encounter.

Maybe he's tougher in the revised version?

 

[Charlaquin]

Maybe he's tougher in the revised version?

He isn't. The "revised version" literally changed about four sentences, mostly to remove references to Vistani characters' current levels of sobriety.

 

[Iry]

Maybe he's tougher in the revised version?

Strahd has a variable difficulty. He has the tools to wipe the floor with almost any party around 10th level, but that doesn't mean an individual GM will play him that way, or that it will be a satisfying climax for the party. But you can split the difference. I mean a wedding ceremony is just asking Strahd to cast seeming and make everyone who fails the save look like Strahd. Including the players.

 

[Flamestrike]

I'm not sure if this makes you feel any better, but most groups I've played with have had an easy time against Strahd.

No excuses for a bad DM I guess.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

My group is eight players--way too big, I know.

Yes, it's funny, by all accounts Gygax used to play with a group that size, but I find six players the absolute maximum that is manageable.

Anyway, you boss absolutely needs to be be buffed to fight a party this size. I suggest looking at mythic bosses from Theros.

Their plan is to explore the place thoroughly and loot everything of value they can find, camping whenever they get low on resources (using Leomund's Tiny Hut). Then, when they feel like they've plundered all the good stuff, they'll take a long rest so they're fresh and then take on the big guy.

And you boss is just going to let them get away with this? He isn't going to spot what they are doing and set an ambush? One of the easiest ways to buff a boss is to make them smarter.

It's not that I want to kill PCs, but I'd like to make the climax of the campaign tense and memorable.

There is a fine line between not wanting to kill PCs and being afraid too. You have to be willing to let PCs die if the fight is going to be meaningful. Failure should be an option.

Killing a few off would help with your party size problem too.


As for CoS, the only reason the players even have a chance is Strahd holds back to toy with them. He can know everything the party does. He can pick them off one by one or split them up. He can sent an army of vampire spawn against them. He can easily have a minion dispel a LTH, or have a purple worm tunnel up underneath and swallow it hole.

 

[Charlaquin]

The adventure is Curse of Strahd, and I particularly hate seeing Strahd go down with a whimper. I do have a souped-up version of him that I was planning to use, but the fight would be more exciting if the PCs didn't have ALL of their tricks.

The reason he can't come to the PCs right this moment is because he's currently getting married. (My campaign is deviating pretty far from the book in some ways.) Not to Ireena--she's being played as a PC--but to Esmae Amarantha, who spent last year's campaign transforming herself into the likeness of Tatyana. He also has a hostage: Ireena's brother Ismark, who has already been bitten twice. My plan was for Strahd to spring a surprise during the ceremony: He'd bring out Ismark and threaten to have Esmae give him the third bite immediately before the congregation unless Ireena agreed to step forward and marry him as well. However, once the PCs got into the castle, they made a beeline for the crypts, which they spent a whole session systematically looting one by one. When Cyrus Belview came down to say the ceremony was starting, the PCs gleefully shoved him into the tomb reserved for Ireena, shut the door, and went back to looting.

Important note:, But the reason I left it vague is because I'm not so much looking for mechanical suggestions on how to make things more challenging ... yet. I have a few ideas about that, but I'm debating myself philosophically as to whether I even should try to make things more challenging, or whether that's just me trying to get in the way of the fun the group wants to have.

Of course, you know your players better than any of us here do, so you’ll be the best judge of what they will find fun. But to me, this sounds like a party making their own fun in the absence of a challenge. Shoving the messenger into a coffin and looting the tombs, making plans to systematically strip the whole castle of anything valuable and use Tiny Hut to get a long rest in before roflstomping Strahd? These don’t read to me as the actions of an engaged group of players. It sounds like they’re probably bored, and far from ruining the fun, I think ramping up the challenge is probably exactly what they need.