Do I want to die?

[Keeper of Secrets]

3d6 in order is the only non-munchkin method to generate a character


Str
Int
Wis
Con
Dex
Cha

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. 3d6 and assign where you want. 3d6 8 times and assign them where you want leaving out the lowest two. Point buy systems. I think that it depends on your philosophy. Are the characters supposed to be heroes or average people who picked up swords. But to suggest that anything BUT standard 3d6 is munchkin is a little narrow, I think.

 

[Christopher Lambert]

Use point buy. That solves a huge problem. Too bad you're not the DM.

I just convinced another DM in my group to use point buy. We have a player who cheats, and even without him it's really dispiriting to have one player with uber-stats and another with terrible stats.

It also sucks if you have stats like 18 13 13 13 12 10 6 when you wanted to play a wizard or a light fighter.

 

[diaglo]

Diaglo, that's a strange order.

I've seen S/I/W/D/Co/Ch and S/D/Con/I/W/Cha, but never that one.

S, I, W, C, D, Ch are the original order of stats.

with the introduction of SUpplement I Greyhawk... the munchkin started to gain a foothold. this included introducing the thief and the paladin into play. and the emphasis on stats began to reign supreme.

thus Dex became more important than Con. and why Basic and Advanced both changed the order to: S, I, W, D, C, Ch

with 2ed things really went haywire.. and stats got split further....

 

[Torm]

3d6 in order is the only non-munchkin method to generate a character


Str
Int
Wis
Con
Dex
Cha

Proper. And then, even if your stats "qualify" you, you should have to roll a 9 on a d10 to play a Paladin.

 

[Gez]

One method I have seen that your group should try next time is 2d6+6 seven times, assign as wanted, discarding the lowest result of the seven rolls. Like the point-buy methods, it gives you scores between 8 and 18. The average is at 13 rather than 10.5, resulting in high enough scores usually.

The extra safety cushion of rolling a seventh times is actually overkill, but it's there for an easier transition from the übermunchkined generation system to something a bit more sane.

 

[RFisher]

Phazeal,

Despite everyone pointing out the occasional times when you character "suffers" because of his low scores, in the long run he will still be a valuable, contributing member of the party.

1. By 10th level, most of the differences due to ability scores modifiers will start becoming overshadowed by BAB, skill, base saving throw, &c. The others may still feel a bit ahead, but less so than they did at 1st level.

2. If you have a well balanced party, you'll have a niche. Your class brings things to the table the others don't have & need.

Don't defend your decision. Just stick by it. Then, when the campaign is over, point out how--in hindsight--your PC managed to hang just fine with their PCs.

 

[Doug McCrae]

"You don't need an 18 to be a hero"

Damn straight. You need at least a 20.

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

Well, what' s interesting about stats is how they differ from one another. The problem with the die-rolling system you're having isn't just power creep; it's also that all stats tend towards the ceiling, so every character is turning out more identical. The all-18s character is taking this to the limit: it's not so much that they're overpowered, just that they're uninteresting! You might as well say you get a +4 to every roll and do away with stats altogether.

It sounds like your group likes to play super-powered characters, larger-than-life heroes, and that's fine. Trying to force everyone to tone it down seems destined to fail.

What if you went for a point-buy system, basing the number of points on the existing characters in the group rather than trying to impose a lower limit of points, and allowed starting stats over 18 to be purchased?

The power-gamers are happy; they've just gotten a 20 strength, even if they had to spend 22 points to get it!

And the virtue of stats are preserved: the 20-strength guy is likely to be ugly and stupid once again, as it is meant to be. Characters are different from one another again, not just minor variations on whether they've put a 14 or an 18 into wisdom.

 

[Zappo]

"You don't need an 18 to be a hero."

Amen. I've been saying for a while that the "18-mindset" is a horrid legacy from 2E. Nowadays, an 18 is not much better than a 16. But lots of players don't seem to get it; my players took literally years before realizing that with point buy even a wizard is better off with a 16 Intelligence than an 18.

I use 25 point buy in all my campaigns. Now, characters with an 18 before modifiers are top of their race, very rare, extraordinary even for a hero, as it should be IMO. Most players stick with a 15 or 16, and only use the 18 for special character concepts. Besides the power level issues, when all heroes have 18s, where are the differences?

 

[Phazeal]

"Besides the power level issues, when all heroes have 18s, where are the differences?"

this is also a problem for me. if they rolled a proper set of stats then the wizard could 'own' the INT skills as he'd (probably) have by far the best bonus, thieves could 'own' DEX skills, etc.

As it is, everyone's characters have about 5 stats b/t 16 and 18. They are all the same!

Maybe I'm going overboard just a little with 3d6 no swaps. I am mostly trying to make a point to the lads that you don't have to have min. 16 characters to a) live and b) enjoy.

25 point stat-buy sounds ok. some sort of middle ground.

Nevertheless, I will enjoy my 3d6 dude more than any other i have played in this system. Have a look at my current 2nd level fighter: 18, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17. his comrades are about the same....sigh......

mucho thanks for all the input guys. Hopefully my group will comre around to a 25pt buy or something. at least their stats will be different and if someone wants an 18 they can cop 3 or 4 10's with it.


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