Do I want to die?

[Gez]

I'm inclined to agree with you there, but I do prefer assign as you see fit to in order. That way, you get to play the character you want. I suppose you could play a wizard with an Int of 9, but you'd be mighty ineffective.

No, there are prerequisites to enter classes. You couldn't be a wizard (that is, a magic-user) with Int 9, you'll need at least something like a 15.

The thing is, you don't play what you want. You play what fate allows you to play. Just like in real life.

If you want to play what you want, just use d20 D&D rather than the One True Game.

 

[Kalanyr]

Nope the pre-req for being a Wizard was Int 9 (IIRC). In general the core classes had 9 for the requirements and the special classes had higher ones.

 

[Phazeal]

The trouble I would have with using the PH rolling system is that it's the one I would like to see them end up using. WITHOUT fudging or adding house rules.

If I can play a character with 3d6 no swaps and function, or indeed just LIVE, then they might see that it doesn't make a lot of difference to the enjoyment of the character. With only my character using the 3d6 method not much is likely to change. I just won't shine amongst a group of supernovas. BUT, if they see that I can survive and have fun then they might start considering the virtues of not starting with 5 stats above 15. Especially after seeing how much satisfaction I get from increasing my Dex from 9 to 10 at 4th level. God how good will that be!

So maybe by going way too far back the other end of the rolling spectrum I can drag their tastes back to something like the PH method of rolling. Only trouble is I need the DM to be keen on the idea otherwise he won't be strict in the rolling of characters and will eventually slide back to 'ok, take whatever. re-roll, here's an 18', etc.

Plus, given that I have been playing 'silver-spoon' characters for so long I wanted to really get stuck into the most useless character (stat-wise) I could and 3d6 no swaps is the best way I know to do that

To be honest, three of our guys probably don't contribute that much to the rules base of our group (house rules, etc). I really only need to convince the other two 'central' players of the virtues of more 'reasonable' stats.

It is a work in progress.

At least, with some of the reponses here, I feel like I have 'some' grounds for doing what I'm doing, rather than just asking to be killed, etc. I'm simply sick of having everything delivered to me on a silver platter. 3x18's an' all. I WANT to do it tough, for things to be challenging, to struggle to shine and feel an overwhelming sense of 'I' when I do, to face a band of orcs at first level and worry, to worry about making a DC10 check, to have my abilities last for one round at first level, to have an armor class something less than a sherman tank at 1st level, to do 1d8 with a longsword (not 1-8+7) and generally to enjoy all the things I've never been able to enjoy because when we start our campaigns with 1st level characters they are effectively 3rd.

P

many thanks for the continued input

 

[reanjr]

No, there are prerequisites to enter classes. You couldn't be a wizard (that is, a magic-user) with Int 9, you'll need at least something like a 15.

The thing is, you don't play what you want. You play what fate allows you to play. Just like in real life.

If you want to play what you want, just use d20 D&D rather than the One True Game.

Oh, were we actually talking about pre 3e? If that's the case, I didn't notice.

 

[Gez]

When Diaglo talk about 3e, all he does is paraphrasing RPG.net's A Silent Wail member...

 

[diaglo]

Nope the pre-req for being a Wizard was Int 9 (IIRC). In general the core classes had 9 for the requirements and the special classes had higher ones.

that's the later edition.

in OD&D there is no prereq for stats for the core classes.

fighting man
cleric
magic-user

heck even the thief added with Supplement I had no stat prereq.

the first wrecked class was the PrC... paladin. needing at least a 17 in Cha and Lawful alignment.

 

[Creamsteak]

I think that something a lot of people don't "see" when they have super high ability scores is that more average ability score generation allows you to shine where you specialize. With 4d6-L the party rogue might be the only one with a dexterity greater than 13, and that almost makes the rogue "stronger" because he's going to be the one making reflex saves, with the better touch AC, and the only one save the wizard to wear light armor. He's stronger because he's going to be more distinctive. That's a big difference that you won't see if everyone has a 16+ dex.

It's just common sense that everyone having obscenely high scores, while technically more powerful, is going to cut into a lot of the individual differences. With particularly high scores (2 18s, etc.) the rogues save (until mid-higher levels where base saves make a larger difference) is going to be only about two to three points better than the fighters (slowly growing in difference), and perhaps even worse than the paladins. Though everyone is "stronger", it's making the rogues unique features significantly less important.

I think this is something important that a lot of super-high-roll games are not too aware of. I think that the classes and the game itself was sort of designed around the average differences between party members that you get with a fairly standard ability score generation.

On the other hand, I've seen way too many 3d6 straight sets where everyone ends up with scores close to 9, 10, and with a high stat of 13. I think that this has the same problems as the super high sets, at least with respect to the characters people build just not being different enough until levels 7+.

Total Sidenote

Here's a question for any statistics buffs, does 4d6-L yeild the same average as 3d6 + 1d6 for each 6 rolled in the 3d6? I came up with the answer that they have the same average, but I thought it was a bit odd.

 

[RFisher]

No, there's really nothing wrong with the PCs having high ability scores. Give everyone straight 18s & you can still have a fun game. (Hmm...might have to try that sometime...)

But, if that's all you ever do, then you're missing part of the game. Everything in the game is there because it can be fun, at least for somebody. If only ability scores from 13 to 18 were fun, the book would suggest rolling 1d6+12.

When 18s are rare in your group, there's a real thrill when you play a character with one. The challenge of playing a wizard that starts with only an 11 Int can be quite enjoyable. There's fun to be had in dealing with a 3 in a ability because the other scores were too good to pass up. You have a weakness to consider. You have to relie on your compatriots in a particular area moreso than usual.

But if nobody in your group finds fun in the normal distribution of scores, there's nothing wrong with giving the PCs higher scores.

 

[Phazeal]

Too true RFisher

If I had always played 3d6 or even the 4d6-L (I like that abbrev ) by the book, then I'd be very keen to have a go at superhumans, even though 'super'human is not an allowable race in 3.5 .

But alas all of our characters have always been super. At least since we started on 3.5.

I have rolled up a reserve character as well, just in case my ranger elf bites the bullet. He's a halfling thief with 5/13/14/5/8/16. So, as you suggested RFisher, if this guy ever gets a run he's going to have to get a LOT of help carrying stuff. He might also need to be shown the way. Twice.

It's the same with the elf and MAYBE, just maybe, the others might see the light with respect to lowering their superhuman status to something more reasonable, something that offers diversity in the group, AND something that encourages the group to act as a team rather than running off for personal glory without much personal fear of death.



P

 

[rowport]

The only real problem with you spurning the extra-high stat generation methods is that it will put you wildly out of scale with the rest of the party. Now, if the GM uses "standard" encounter levels, so your group walks through the world as untouchable supermen, no problem- you will just be Rick Jones to their Hulks and Captain Americas. OTOH, if the GM's world is scaled to be a challenge to the SuperFriends, your mere moral character is going to spend a lot of time either healing or hiding (or both). Again, that might be OK with you, but you should consider how fun it will be to play. (Honestly, playing a sub-par coward in a crowd of superheroes sounds kind of fun to me!)