Do Multiclassed Epic Characters Get The Shaft?

[mikebr99]

That's true, but this should be done through feat chains, not barring access to feats.

I don't want to bar feats... I just want to keep using the non-epic bonus feat lists that come with every non-epic class.

Even at lower levels, one has the choice of following a feat chain (such as Dodge, Mobility etc), versus picking up individual powers (Lit Reflexes, Iron Will).

Think about it at low levels. At low levels, everyone at the same levels has access to the same feats. Whether multiclassing or not. The typical barriers to taking the powerful feats are BAB requirements, skill ranks, or maybe another feature. Instead of getting feats, other characters pick up class abilities, but everyone has access to the same "feat pool" at a given level.

At high levels, if we use the rules as written, then this is still true. Due to recent confusion, many people are insisting multiclassers do not get the same access to Epic feats as single classed characters when using bonus feats.

Multiclassers still get the bonus feats based on their total character level... which CAN be chosen from the epic list. But if you are a 20th level something... and you decide to pick up the low level abilities of a 1st level fighter... you are going to pick stuff off the fighters list in the phb (and splat books), not the EPIC Fighter list.

If you allow someone to do this, then a 20th Something/2nd Fighter has MORE Epic feats then a 22nd level fighter!

 

[smetzger]

I can only find 4 epic feats that are on the Epic Fighter bonus feat list and I would consider a real possibility for a spellcaster to be able to take:
Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Superior Initiative

All the other feats have requirements that it would be unlikely for a Wiz20 to be able to meet.

 

[Crothian]

If you allow someone to do this, then a 20th Something/2nd Fighter has MORE Epic feats then a 22nd level fighter!

So? THe 22nd level fighter is going to have better epic feats becasue the good ones have tough prerequites. I mean unless you specifically build the 20th somethin/2nd fighter to be able to take advantage of that one epic feat, then it will all work out. I see the biggest problem not being with the system but with the people who would abuse it.

 

[mikebr99]

I can only find 4 epic feats that are on the Epic Fighter bonus feat list and I would consider a real possibility for a spellcaster to be able to take:
Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Superior Initiative

All the other feats have requirements that it would be unlikely for a Wiz20 to be able to meet.

What about epic toughness? getting 20 hit points with every bonus feat is pretty good in my book.

A 20th level Wizard/4th level fighter, taking epic toughness 3 times and epic spellcasting stuff with character level bonus feats is going to be better off all around then a 24th level wizard.

 

[mikebr99]

So? THe 22nd level fighter is going to have better epic feats becasue the good ones have tough prerequites. I mean unless you specifically build the 20th somethin/2nd fighter to be able to take advantage of that one epic feat, then it will all work out. I see the biggest problem not being with the system but with the people who would abuse it.

I agree Crothian... but some of us have people in our groups that like to find stuff like this, and use it to their advantage... So I have nixed it (and I think you have also).

 

[Crothian]

I agree Crothian... but some of us have people in our groups that like to find stuff like this, and use it to their advantage... So I have nixed it (and I think you have also).

Well,, what I argue and what I do in my game are not necessarily the same thing

 

[mikebr99]

Well,, what I argue and what I do in my game are not necessarily the same thing

LOL...

and the politician shines through... "do as I say, NOT as I do!"

 

[Crothian]

LOL...

and the politician shines through... "do as I say, NOT as I do!"

It's more to further discusion on the message boards becasue I can usually come up with arguements on both siodes of an issue. It's not do what I say, or do what I do, it's think of a situation from all sides and try to come up with all the relevant facts and do what works best for you

 

[Voadam]

I can only find 4 epic feats that are on the Epic Fighter bonus feat list and I would consider a real possibility for a spellcaster to be able to take:
Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Superior Initiative

All the other feats have requirements that it would be unlikely for a Wiz20 to be able to meet.

But how about the Barbarian 20?

I'm not that concerned about the wizard 20, he has a BAB of 10 for two attacks and is likely better off continuing the magical route for epic spell power quicker than trying to switch to fighter at that point. A cleric 20 might come close to epic requirements and a barbarian only has fewer feat choices than a fighter to limit him.

 

[mikebr99]

But how about the Barbarian 20?

I'm not that concerned about the wizard 20, he has a BAB of 10 for two attacks and is likely better off continuing the magical route for epic spell power quicker than trying to switch to fighter at that point. A cleric 20 might come close to epic requirements and a barbarian only has fewer feat choices than a fighter to limit him.

If you leave the rules on page 8 as they stand now... this is exactly what a 20th level Barbarian should do... switch to Fighter for his Epic levels. He'll end up getting bonus epic feats every other level, instead of every fourth. The other bonus stuff that an epic Barbarian gets isn't worth as much as bonus epic feats... YMMV.