Do natural 1's instantly mean a failed save?

[Crothian]

Because in game terms its usually cheap, and not at all representative of the actual or cinematic likelihood for such a failure to occur.

Okay, then if 5% is to high, they could need to roll 2 nat "1's" in a row to fail. I just think there should always be a chance of failure, other wise why have dice?

Also, I was just curious why does it matter if this is a house rule or a core rule? Most people play using they rules they want and not really care how it's defined.

 

[Kai Lord]

Okay, then if 5% is to high, they could need to roll 2 nat "1's" in a row to fail. I just think there should always be a chance of failure, other wise why have dice?

Also, I was just curious why does it matter if this is a house rule or a core rule? Most people play using they rules they want and not really care how it's defined.

Eh, I just like to play with as few House Rules as possible, for whatever reason. It doesn't mean we don't change something we don't like.

What prompted the initial inquiry was all the strategizing against the upcoming Green Dragon encounter. I didn't really like the idea of basing tactics around the in-game possibility of it being killed by a poison or slaying arrow that have no business even hurting it.

I didn't want to have that rule, even if it is only 5%, to fall back on at the expense of the legitimacy of the encounter.

 

[Shin Okada]

Yes, autofailures apply to saves as well. It's in the FAQ and D&Dg.

What does "D&Dg" mean?

 

[1337 h4xor]

there are some times where there can be no chance of failure or success. I found this becomes more true in epic play where characters shouldnt be able to be hurt by pithy little spells and magics.... the same way the epic rules recommend getting rid of the massive damage rules Hell my epic weapons master does 50 damage minimum on a swing. So should some 1st level sorcerer be able to whip out a scroll of polymorph other and turn him into a sloth 5% of the time. The same goes of Npcs or monsters saving. An archmage hits you with a spell dc 37 or die.... if you're a 5th level character your ass should go down no question.

the +10 on a 20 -10 on a 1 option is more than sufficient to deal with a chance of failure.

 

[Kai Lord]

there are some times where there can be no chance of failure or success. I found this becomes more true in epic play where characters shouldnt be able to be hurt by pithy little spells and magics.... the same way the epic rules recommend getting rid of the massive damage rules Hell my epic weapons master does 50 damage minimum on a swing. So should some 1st level sorcerer be able to whip out a scroll of polymorph other and turn him into a sloth 5% of the time. The same goes of Npcs or monsters saving. An archmage hits you with a spell dc 37 or die.... if you're a 5th level character your ass should go down no question.

the +10 on a 20 -10 on a 1 option is more than sufficient to deal with a chance of failure.

Exactly.

 

[Crothian]

What does "D&Dg" mean?

Dieties and Demi gods

 

[Crothian]

there are some times where there can be no chance of failure or success. I found this becomes more true in epic play where characters shouldnt be able to be hurt by pithy little spells and magics.... the same way the epic rules recommend getting rid of the massive damage rules Hell my epic weapons master does 50 damage minimum on a swing. So should some 1st level sorcerer be able to whip out a scroll of polymorph other and turn him into a sloth 5% of the time. The same goes of Npcs or monsters saving. An archmage hits you with a spell dc 37 or die.... if you're a 5th level character your ass should go down no question.

So that everyone has a chance of failure and needs to be a little worried in what they do and whom they face.

 

[Ranger REG]

Somehow I'm glad I didn't pick up Epic-Level Handbook, if we have to get rid of the Massive Damage Threshold rule. I'd be more inclined to have rules that allow one to increase the MDT, whether as a class feature or a feat.

Short of being a deity themselves, mortals should be concern about danger from even the weakest of creatures, especially when their greatest strength is swarming by numbers over the big heroes.

As for saving throws, it should be treated just like an attack roll, only as a defensive against special attack (as opposed to regular attacks against your AC or the DMG variant defense roll).

 

[Creeperman]

I personally prefer using the open-ended roll variant in the Epic Level Handbook on all rolls. A natural 1 means roll again, but subtract 20 from the result. A natural 20 means roll again, but add 20 to the result. That way, if your save is good enough, even a natural 1 won't necessarily kill you off, while a natural 20 won't necessary let a totally unprepared or inept character pull off some crazy DC 50+ save.

As for massive damage, I use my own custom system, as follows. You only save against massive damage if you lose one-half or more of your maximum hit points in a single attack. The base DC is ten, plus one for every five full hit points you lost in the attack. Thus, a character with 120 maximum hit points who lost 80 in a single attack must make a Fortitude save against DC 26 (10 + (80 / 5 = 16)) to avoid instant death. This keeps the rule semi-meaningful at both low and high levels, even with insane hit point totals and Fortitude save bonuses.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As for massive damage, I use my own custom system, as follows. You only save against massive damage if you lose one-half or more of your maximum hit points in a single attack. The base DC is ten, plus one for every five full hit points you lost in the attack.

Yowp! So the average first level commoner - or wizard - has to make a DC10 Fort Save or die if someone punches him (taking the -4 to deal real damage) for 2 hit points?

-Hyp.