Do NPCs Get Personal FATE Points?

[Umbran]

Players all nod. "Ok, the svartalfar turns tail and boogies..." as the GM takes a fate point for the npc pool, and to be used by the devildogs he'd been leading.

And, this is a place where, we have to be careful, if we are going to be exact.

Technically, if Compelled, you get the Fate Point in the same scene.

If someone does a Hostile Invoke, the point for that comes in the next scene.

Points for Conceding also come in the next scene, but that makes sense, because if you Conceded, you're out for the current scene.

(Fate Core SRD: Earning Fate Points)

 

[aramis erak]

And, this is a place where, we have to be careful, if we are going to be exact.
[…]
If someone does a Hostile Invoke, the point for that comes in the next scene.

(Fate Core SRD: Earning Fate Points)

not exactly. They cannot spend it until next scene, but they get it now.

If the aspect you invoke is on someone else’s character sheet, including
situation aspects attached to them, you give them the fate point you spent.
They don’t actually get to use it until after the end of the scene, though.

this is important if one pays attention to the sequencing.

They get it now... for NPCs, that's the NPC pool... but cannot spend it until next scene... but the NPC pool resets before the next scene.

And, this is a place where, we have to be careful, if we are going to be exact.

Technically, if Compelled, you get the Fate Point in the same scene.

A concession does not remove you from the scene unless (1) that's the desired goal of the conflict or (2) it's agreed to by the group (FC p167); a compel (even self-administered) can do that.

Note that the benefit of flight by compel for the last functional or only NPC in scene is you leave as is... but if they let you go, you lose that fate point at end of scene, so it's actually worse than a concession in that aspect (pardon the intentional pun), but also retains control.

On the other hand, the compel to flee can result in a chase... leaving one conflict for a different one, or splitting the conflict into two scenes or a single scene of jump cuts between two or more zones and/or two separate conflicts. Which can be, if done well, really nifty.

And if you compel away an NPC while others are present, the scene continues with the others having access to that fate point... essentially, they get 1 for being left behind... and if the fleeing one is already compromised by consequences or other compels such that they're no longer effective in scene, it;'s still a net benefit.

 

[pemerton]

Such as the GM saying, "Hmm, that 'terror of ghosts' is a problem since you called forth Bob... Compel to flee?"
Players all nod. "Ok, the svartalfar turns tail and boogies..." as the GM takes a fate point for the npc pool, and to be used by the devildogs he'd been leading.

They get it now... for NPCs, that's the NPC pool... but cannot spend it until next scene... but the NPC pool resets before the next scene.

<snip>

And if you compel away an NPC while others are present, the scene continues with the others having access to that fate point... essentially, they get 1 for being left behind... and if the fleeing one is already compromised by consequences or other compels such that they're no longer effective in scene, it;'s still a net benefit.

For a non-Fate player, can I ask for a clarification: if the point can't be spent until the next scene, how is helping the bolded NPCs? What am I missing?

 

[Umbran]

not exactly. They cannot spend it until next scene, but they get it now.

The wording is, "...you gain their fate point at the end of the scene."

This matters when you are using physical tokens (which is recommended, as the GM needs to be able to respond to how many fate points PCs have, and if they aren't visible, that gets awkward. If you hand out a token early, folks have to keep them separate and not mix them together, and that's not a great practical idea at the normal level of chaos at gaming tables.

They get it now... for NPCs, that's the NPC pool... but cannot spend it until next scene... but the NPC pool resets before the next scene.

"You reset to your default total, one per [PC], at the beginning of every scene.

There are two exceptions:

• You accepted a compel that effectively ended the last scene or starts the next one. If that happens, take an extra fate point in the next scene.
• You conceded a conflict to the [PC]s in the previous scene. If that happens, take the fate points you’d normally get for the concession into the next scene and add them to the default total."

And:

"Lenny has stated that he always intended for hostile invokes on NPCs to grant fate points to the GM for the next scene " (as quoted earlier).

So, if the NPC pool earns points, those points are added to the pool in the next scene. None of them can be used in the scene in which they were earned. In effect, in a scene, the GM pool can only use what it starts with.

A concession does not remove you from the scene unless (1) that's the desired goal of the conflict or (2) it's agreed to by the group (FC p167); a compel (even self-administered) can do that.

Strictly speaking, perhaps. As a practical matter, the opponent can (and should) insist that the Consession removes you from any business related to the Conflict, which probably also means you are removed from the real business of the scene. If there's a Conflict where the BBEG is trying to keep the PCs from pulling a lever, you can't Concede the conflict... and then go pull the lever.

Note that the benefit of flight by compel for the last functional or only NPC in scene is you leave as is... but if they let you go, you lose that fate point at end of scene, so it's actually worse than a concession in that aspect (pardon the intentional pun), but also retains control.

The intent of a Compel is to add drama and complication to a scene, not to tactically remove opposition from a scene entirely. "... and so you run away," is not a complication for you, it is a defeat for you.

I am not sure why players who are about to win would want to give such a Compel anyway - they get more out of a Concession or Taking Out the opposition. And if the PCs aren't about to win, then this is really not a valid Compel at all. You don't circumvent the important parts of a conflict with one Fate Point.

 

[aramis erak]

For a non-Fate player, can I ask for a clarification: if the point can't be spent until the next scene, how is helping the bolded NPCs? What am I missing?

Concession ≠ Compel ≠ Hostile Invoke
A≠B, A≠C, B≠C

Concession: point is explicitly carried forward in the GM's pool to next scene. Removes character conceding from conflict.
Compel: point is immediately available to the PC; NPC's go into the NPC pool immediately. If suggested by a player, the point comes from the player; if from the GM, it's from the stockpile. Can do any of a number of things, including remove someone from scene.
Hostile Invoke: using someone's aspect as if it were yours: you pay them now, but it's not available until end of scene, at least in the Fate Core rulebook PDF. You get the reroll or the +2 or the enabled task now.

Sequencing:
Start of scene: GM gets reset to 1 fate point per player in scene, plus 1 for conceding a conflict last scene.
Scene
End of Scene: A concession or defeat is dealt with by the other side. Any hostile invoke points go into the various character's pools; the GM technically gets them now, too, but since they go away at the start of the next scene, they are irrelevant.

There seem to be differences between SRD wording, and published PDF wording.

 

[RobShanti]

Super helpful. Thank you for parsing all this out, gentlemen.