D&D 5E Do NPCs in your game have PHB classes?

[Tony Vargas]

No. Hp corresponds to a confluence of of qualities. How does a character accurately assess how much luck or divine grace someone has left by looking at them?

Spirituality-sight? Actually, at one point (2e? 3e?), I think there /was/ a spell that let you monitor hps, in essence. Death Sight, maybe?

Do you think an accomplished warrior estimates their own chance of landing a blow on an opponent in terms of having to roll X or higher on a d20? Or that they can come up with actual percentages for hitting and missing?

'Percentage' would be an alien concept to most medieval warriors. But, yeah, assessing or 'feeling out' the enemy is something a cautious/skillful warrior might be depicted as doing in fiction. I think the BM has something for that, even.

If this character has more than 120 HP, and your DM says that it is "certain" that this fall is instantly fatal, then I don't know what to tell you.

I'd tell you he's clearly running 5e. Because he's well within his rights to say that.

All of that information is available to the character. Hit Points correspond to current bodily integrity, which can be ascertained by looking at someone.

Because you have more skill and luck and so on, it requires more physical damage to actually put you down.

I don't know what's sillier, that you keep coming up with that nonsense, or that I keep replying to it. We both must enjoy it on some level.

You're saying that luck and skill can keep you alive with a spear through your heart, or without your head. That's absurd.

What (little) D&D has had to say about hps (when it says anything at all) indicates that the skill and luck are 'used up' in avoiding the worst of blows that otherwise might have done that kind of physical damage to you. The thrust through the heart becomes a scratch on the arm as you twist to one side, because you're just that skillful, the decapitating slash only knocks off your hat as you bend over to tie your shoes, because you're just that lucky.

 

[Shasarak]

I could tell you your character dies.

Why? I'm the DM.

Not any more. See it works both ways.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Spirituality-sight? Actually, at one point (2e? 3e?), I think there /was/ a spell that let you monitor hps, in essence. Death Sight, maybe?

Deathwatch was a spell in 3.5, at least, which would tell you if someone was undead, dead, alive with fewer than 3HP left, alive with more than 4HP left, or none of the above.

That's current HP, though. It doesn't tell you how much damage someone has already taken, which would be easier to observe (in-game) and much more difficult for the DM to hide from the players (out-of-game).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

You're saying that luck and skill can keep you alive with a spear through your heart, or without your head. That's absurd.

I never said anything about impalement or decapitation. Not recently, at least.

I'm trying not to antagonize the proportional wounds camp, since their position isn't that ridiculous, so if you want to say that your skill or luck turns a solid hit into a glancing blow, then that's fine. Where I must object is at the idea of an attack dealing damage only to your luck, since that sort of damage would not be observable to the characters, and they would not be able to address it. The absolute minimum viable explanation must still allow the game to be played, without meta-gaming.

 

[Yardiff]

3.5 srd

Status
2nd lv cl

When you need to keep track of comrades who may get separated, status allows you to mentally monitor their relative positions and general condition. You are aware of direction and distance to the creatures and any conditions affecting them: unharmed, wounded, disabled, staggered, unconscious, dying, nauseated, panicked, stunned, poisoned, diseased, confused, or the like. Once the spell has been cast upon the subjects, the distance between them and the caster does not affect the spell as long as they are on the same plane of existence. If a subject leaves the plane, or if it dies, the spell ceases to function for it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm trying not to antagonize the proportional wounds camp, since their position isn't that ridiculous, so if you want to say that your skill or luck turns a solid hit into a glancing blow, then that's fine. Where I must object is at the idea of an attack dealing damage only to your luck, since that sort of damage would not be observable to the characters, and they would not be able to address it.

It's inevitable, though - at some point a PC is going to be more than 50% non-physical hps, and take only 1 hp of damage. And, even setting that aside, you end up with characters with different hps suffering identical wounds from different amounts of damage - that can't be healed by the same spells. 'Luck hps' or 'luck damage' may seem bizarre, but the alternative is running around with your heart impaled (good thing you're not a vampire).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It's inevitable, though - at some point a PC is going to be more than 50% non-physical hps, and take only 1 hp of damage. And, even setting that aside, you end up with characters with different hps suffering identical wounds from different amounts of damage - that can't be healed by the same spells. 'Luck hps' or 'luck damage' may seem bizarre, but the alternative is running around with your heart impaled (good thing you're not a vampire).

Why can't the alternative be a scratch on the arm? Even if you just go with the proportional idea, which is fairly popular, a hit for 8 damage on someone with 80 HP would be the equivalent of 1 damage to someone with 10 HP, and that's hardly ever described as being impaled through the heart.

Dealing 1 damage to someone with 80 HP, as unlikely as that is to happen, would just be a wound that is one-eighth as severe as that. By that model, at least.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why can't the alternative be a scratch on the arm?

What a less-than-1-hp 'scratch?' The idea you have there is that each hp is part physical, part luck/etc. So, now, instead of some all-meat hps and a lot more all-luck/skill/etc hps, you have all the hps of any high-hp medium humanoid being mostly luck/skill/&c.

Even if you just go with the proportional idea, which is fairly popular, a hit for 8 damage on someone with 80 HP would be the equivalent of 1 damage to someone with 10 HP, and that's hardly ever described as being impaled through the heart.

OTOH, 8 damage on someone with 4 hps - dead. And if it's the equivalent, which is fine, then, if luck/skill/etc "isn't being healed" then why does it take more healing to heal the 'equivalent' 8 hp & 1hp wounds? You're back to non-physical hps & healing again.

Bottom line: D&D hps don't make sense, never did, probably never will, so the objection "but then hps wouldn't make sense!" is moot.

 

[Shasarak]

Even though DnD hit points do not make sense, there is no reason to make them even more Gonzo.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

What a less-than-1-hp 'scratch?' The idea you have there is that each hp is part physical, part luck/etc.

You know how a bug bite doesn't do enough damage to register, but a swarm of bugs might deal a couple of damage cumulatively? It's like that. When someone only has a few total HP, we don't bother tracking the individual nicks and scratches, because they're unlikely to matter. When someone has many total HP, suddenly we care about tracking each scratch, because those are the only blows that anyone can land, and they might add up.

OTOH, 8 damage on someone with 4 hps - dead. And if it's the equivalent, which is fine, then, if luck/skill/etc "isn't being healed" then why does it take more healing to heal the 'equivalent' 8 hp & 1hp wounds? You're back to non-physical healing again.

So a Cure II spell will fix a broken rib for a novice, but barely heal a black eye for a hero. Are you suggesting that magic isn't behaving realistically enough for you?

Bottom line: D&D hps don't make sense, never did, probably never will, so the objection "but then hps wouldn't make sense!" is moot.

Bottom line: Hit Points in D&D are just fine, characters can observe damage when it is taken, and any model which encourages meta-gaming is untenable in a role-playing game.