Do we coddle new Players?

[Kae'Yoss]

Actually:

"When any creature is brought to 0 hp (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0) it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies."
1e AD&D DMG pg 82.

You were playing it exactly as per the RAW. 3e as written is far more lethal than 1e as written, IMO.

Actually, 3e isn't as bad, as it allows you to stabilize. You have a 10% chance to stop losing hit points each round.

 

[S'mon]

Yeah Kaeyoss, but in 1e you COULD NOT BE REDUCED BELOW 0hp (or -3hp) by any single attack; ie there was per the RAW **NO** instant death from damage. Since few PCs would bleed out (taking 10 or 7 rounds) before the battle ended, this was a LOT kinder IMO. Of course maybe few groups actually used this rule as written.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yeah Kaeyoss, but in 1e you COULD NOT BE REDUCED BELOW 0hp (or -3hp) by any single attack; ie there was per the RAW **NO** instant death from damage. Since few PCs would bleed out (taking 10 or 7 rounds) before the battle ended, this was a LOT kinder IMO. Of course maybe few groups actually used this rule as written.

Ah, haven't seen that.

Doesn't make too much sense, though. If you take a hit that will cleave you in half, you don't fall unconscous. Or if a mountain hits you.

 

[apesamongus]

Ah, haven't seen that.

Doesn't make too much sense, though. If you take a hit that will cleave you in half, you don't fall unconscous. Or if a mountain hits you.

You don't, but Conan might.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You don't, but Conan might.

Yah, but only because he has the "survive certain death" feat (bonus feat for all protagonists of TV, Movie or Novel series)

 

[apesamongus]

Yah, but only because he has the "survive certain death" feat (bonus feat for all protagonists of TV, Movie or Novel series)

Sounds a lot like PCs in my games.

 

[Orius]

Actually:

"When any creature is brought to 0 hp (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0) it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies."
1e AD&D DMG pg 82.

You were playing it exactly as per the RAW. 3e as written is far more lethal than 1e as written, IMO.

Interesting. I wasn't aware that rule predated 2e. I know that is was an option in the 2e rules though, where in 3e it isn't. Also it was in the DMG in 2e, but 3e puts it in the PHB.

Come to think of it, I don't recall killing PCs during the 2e days, though there were a few close calls where they fell below 0. I inflicted my first PC kills and TPK only after switching to 3e. Early on, PC deaths were attributed to some degree to my familiarity with the 2e version of the monsters, and not noticing that said monsters had been buffed for 3e.

 

[RFisher]

You were playing it exactly as per the RAW.

It was that "0 hp (optionally as low as -3" part that we ignored. We played that going directly from 1 hp to -5 hp was no different from going from 1 hp to -3 hp.

 

[swrushing]

If I threw my PC in front of a pack of wolves, and had no chance of death, the game loses some of its sense of drama or risk for me. Even in movies or TV shows, main characters die in trivial ways for dramatic effect (e.g. the death of the character Tara in Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series).

BTW, I dont think anyone is suggesting there actually be no chance of death. Is anyone saying that if you deliberately chose to die in dramatic fashion that you would not be allowed to die? nope.

the argument isn't against planned, dramatically appropriate deaths, but against casual death as a result of nothing more significant than a lucky die roll on the part of an unspecified foe and we might add regardless of the impact within a game's plots and stories.

Take Buffy, Tara's death was not an accident. Joss did not roll a 1 the night before and script tara to die. he killed her character in order to trigger the change in Willow and bring about the season's three part finale in a big way. her death was planned, devised and scriptied and was not just the result of a bad die roll.

Imagine if instead, back in season 5, during the beginning of the chase scene in the winebago one of the knights had gotten a lucky crossbow to kill dawn? Well, now they have all succeeded, dawn is dead, glory's plans are kaplooey and the whole season's theme about saving dawn and her great role is now, sort of, not gonna wrap up.

wouldn't that have been fun?

heck, we might have been spared thw whole UPN buy-out and seasons 6 and 7 had that been the result of season 5.

Simply put, while the extremes are usually louder, to me there is a world of space between "a lucky die roll means your character is gone so stop yer whining sissy" and "there will be no death or even threat of injury in this game no matter what choices you make" and i bet many a game is run in the vast space between those two poles every day.

 

[RFisher]

Take Buffy, Tara's death was not an accident. Joss did not roll a 1 the night before and script tara to die.

But then, you could look at PC death by (un)lucky die roll as being the same a B5's unplanned changes in cast. JMS had to change the story to account for these unexpected events.

(Well, "had to" isn't quite true. Allowing another actor to take up an existing role has certainly been done successfully. JMS just didn't want to go that route.)