Do We Need A Bard Class?

[lutecius]

Of course the bard could technically be integrated into another class or rebuilt by multiclassing, but that is true for most D&D classes.
I too love the generic true20 approach, but classes in D&D just don't work that way.
There are worse offenders anyway, base classes who don't even have much of an archetype of their own:
-warlord? an inspiring fighter with some tactical & coaching feats (don't get me started on how pointless and ugly I find this class)
-ranger? a fighter with some nature skills (why a warrior could not be good at 2 weapon fighting or archery?)
-warlock? pacts & curses would thematically make great feats for either wizard or cleric
-cleric & paladin? random stops on the road beween fightertown and divinespellcasterville (and the whole arcane/divine thing is a dndism in itself)
and so on...

The "song magic" theme goes way beyond the historical bard. there's Orpheus, Amphion, the sirens, the heroes of the Kalevala, Krishna
...none of whom fit the bookish wizard archetype. they could work as a subset of enchanter or maybe druid but not as 4e wizards who fire mystic bolts at will and with Int as their primary attribute.

The jack-of-all trades type, i agree, could just be a multiclassed rogue.
and the social skills package could be feats for any character with enough charisma.

 

[MaelStorm]

It's all a need for different flavor.
Maybe you can think that there should be only vanilla ice cream. But people that like chocolate ice cream would not be interested in buying vanilla ice cream.

Plus the Bards can be hilarious on numerous occasions. And very useful too.

 

[Khementari]

Song magic never really had anything to do with the bard in my mind. I always saw the bard as a leader-type--a world traveler that knew something from all corners of existence, dabbled in magic, knew how to survive, and could get along well in a battle--of course the theme of music was always there but for me it was music for musics sake.

The Bard, at home on the open road as well as the heart of the city, making music at the campfire or in the tavern, and ultimately inspiring his friends to do greater things.

I almost want to give the Warlord some knowledge ability and the ability to pick up a spell or two along the way, then slap on a new name.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

He does not use a whip, for the love of Pelor.

the whip proficiency worked very well when I was building an Ultimate Support Bard. With the tripping and disarming advantages, it gave a variety of choices of what to do in combat within the support niche. (trip and disarm? flank and aid? grease? heal?)

Whips are cool. Bards are cool. Let the bard keep the whip.

 

[Raduin711]

I like the bard concept, and I think it's enough to warrant another class. While I think some classes can do double-duty, I don't feel it is necessarily desirable to do so.

I wouldn't mind the idea of a song-mage concept, but the way a bard operates and how a wizard operates are too different in my opinion. If a bard was just a wizard with a mandolin, that would be fine, but there's a bit more to it than that in my humble opinion.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I have always as some have said before as a world traveller.

This is how I have viewed the bard in my games.

"A man of slight build entered the tavern, his coat covered in the dust of the road. As he settles into a booth in the back of the tavern he pulls out a elaborately decorated flute; a gift from a past-love. As he begins to play the patrons of the tavern turn to gaze in wonderment at the man and listen in awe at his beautiful music.

Through this music he entrances the people with a tale told within their own hearts of his exploits. He has gazed upon the beauties and horrors of the world, has fought with kings and entranced princesses, has forged links of magic and fire with beings of ancient might, has.. The people lose themselves in his story.

The man gets up and leaves, leaving behind his stunned audience. Though he never spoke a word or gave a name his legacy shall live on in that town and every town, village, city and castle he visits."

That to me is a bard.

 

[lutecius]

Song magic never really had anything to do with the bard in my mind. I always saw the bard as a leader-type--a world traveler that knew something from all corners of existence, dabbled in magic, knew how to survive, and could get along well in a battle--of course the theme of music was always there but for me it was music for musics sake.

That is John Constantine with a harmonica. the jack-of-all-trades, in my opinion, works better as a multiclassed character.
As a class of its own, it would have to walk the very fine line between overpowered and eversucky.

Also, removing the song magic would be removing one of the last ties to the name.
the celtic bard was otherwise more of a scholar and political propagandist than the ultimate adventurer.
he was a respected religious figure and the influence his poems and songs had on people was considered as quasi-magical.

 

[Greenfaun]

For me it all comes down to the different concepts that have been attached to the word "Bard" over the years before I can answer.

Do I want a retread/update of the 3.5 bard, with half-assed combat, half-assed spellcasting, and a boring-to-play musical buff system? No, pass.

Do I want a new version of the Darksun bard, which is to say, poisoner/spy/griefing jerkwad bait? Hell of no. But I'm biased.

Do I want an Arcane Leader class that combines the coolest parts of the Beguiler and the Truespeaker with all-new shiny 4e mechanics to make a class that is a full spellcaster with a unique mechanical flavor, equipped with powers to pwn the new social encounters, trick and befuddle enemies, and protect and buff allies? A class that will NOT walk into combat strumming a lute and expect to survive? Yeah, I'm interested in that. And may I suggest that WOTC call that class a bard instead of getting it wrong in the PHB and releasing several other classes to eclipse their imperfect first draft?

I do understand that it's difficult to pin down the bard archetype in a combat-focussed game. It's a conundrum. Singing and playing a lute while everyone else is fighting is full of lose, though.

All things considered, though, I'm still more eager to see the Druid.

 

[CleverNickName]

I don't know exactly what mechanics I want implemented to make it happen, but I know what I want the bard to do in my game. The bard:

*snip*

I defy you to do that with a multi-class rogue/wizard/warlord/fighter/swordmage/frabbledybloo. And if the 4e bard doesn't do that, I'll make a new one that does.

I dunno, man...I think that many characters with a high Charisma and/or light armor could do most of these things.

Learns music? I've never understood why most gamers assume that only bards can sing well or play musical instruments. I am an engineer, but I can play the mandolin, and I can play by ear, from sheet music, or improvisation. Bard, I am not. I'm not even a musician. I'm just a guy who learned a skill. If the music needs to be magical...and I am not convinced that it has to be...then substitute flute for wand as an implement, and you are done.

Chronicles events and spreads word of the party's deeds? Again, there is no reason why this has to be exclusive to a particular class...storytelling is another Charisma-based skill that can be taught and learned by almost anyone, just like playing a music instrument. It's difficult to find a use for this ability in an encounter, so I'm content to just let it happen in the background.

Inspires others when they are feeling down? Charisma check. Schmoozes his way into the noble court? Charisma check. Disguise, smooth-talking, and heart-winning? All Charisma checks. (The mustache should grant at least a competence bonus to the check, though. If I were your DM, I'd allow it.)

Beguiles, misdirects, dodges, and darts about? This sounds like something best suited to a high-dex, light-armor fellow. (And your post officially became Awesome when you used the phrase, "He buckles his swash.") This could be handled with Dex checks and/or a better, less munchkin Dodge feat.

Knows the legends of the land, knows the tales of monsters and whatnot? So do most adventurers. They are sort of known for it. In fact, it is how they earn their living. There really isn't a need to build a whole class around this either; a simple History check would work for most cases, or it could just be handled as an assumption behind the scenes.

I like your ideas, and the character you describe would be a lot of fun to play...but I'm still not convinced that it needs to be its own class. IMO, it could be done effectively and easily with a simple high-Charisma fighter or rogue. The skill effects that you mention (like granting bonuses to others in the party) could be handled with a talent tree, feat chain, or whatever they are calling them in 4E.

In conclusion,

 

[Mistwell]

I'd actually prefer a generalist / jack-of-all-trades class that didn't necessarily have a musical flavor. Such a class wouldn't necessarily be useful in larger parties full of specialists, but would certainly have a place in 1-2 player games.

Well I'd love to play an Akashic again.