Do we want one dominant game, and why?

[Starfox]

In my experience, D&D was not what I would call "dominant" in the 1970s-80s.

If DnD was not "dominant" in the early days, then "dominant" was not the word I was looking for with the poll. This might explain some answers I found weird, where people seemed to equate dominant as the ONLY acceptable game.

The kind of "dominant" I was looking for was the one used in the "Empires in Arms" game describing the situation in Europe in 1805 to distinguish major powers (The Ottoman Empire, Prussia, Austria, Spain Russia) from dominant powers (France, Great Britain). That is first-rank with a significant lead on the others, but by no means the sole player.

If "dominant" is widely understood to mean something else, it was a bad choice of words for the poll - I am not a native English speaker so its the kind of mistake I could make. I did explain myself in a later post tough.

 

[Raven Crowking]

No, it really isn't. A claim that has absolutely no evidence to back it up is not an "equally reasonable position to hold".

Two claims with absolutely no evidence to back them up are equally reasonable (or unreasonable) positions to hold.


RC

 

[Hussar]

Two claims with absolutely no evidence to back them up are equally reasonable (or unreasonable) positions to hold.


RC

Yup, I'd agree with that.

Now, what about one claim with evidence and another with none? Are those equally reasonable?

Cos, from where I'm standing, there's all sorts of evidence that says that the active player base of OD&D and 1e D&D has fallen since 1982. The fact that Unearthed Arcana (according to Mr Gygax on these boards) was pushed out the door because of falling sales indicates a drop in active players.

Add to that the complete and utter silence of these apparent millions of active gamers, complete lack of evidence in their existence, and I'm going to state pretty categorically that OD&D and 1e D&D have both lost active gamer base compared to the early 80's and that claims that there are even remotely equal numbers to those currently playing either 3e or 4e (publicly acknowledged in legal documents to measure in the millions) is ludicrous and utterly without foundation.

 

[billd91]

Cos, from where I'm standing, there's all sorts of evidence that says that the active player base of OD&D and 1e D&D has fallen since 1982. The fact that Unearthed Arcana (according to Mr Gygax on these boards) was pushed out the door because of falling sales indicates a drop in active players.

Or a saturated market. Nobody needs a 1e PH because they've already got (or have access to) one? Sales drop.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Exactly.

Simply because you accept something as evidence doesn't mean that anyone else will.

"From where I'm standing" means nothing when the question is what is reasonable from where someone else is standing.


RC

 

[Umbran]

Still butting heads? What is it with you guys?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Sorry, I thought the discussion had become reasonable and respectful, on both sides.

 

[Ariosto]

The problem I see is that RPGs are, unlike products in some other fields, not all basically the same except for brand name. They are not even all trying to do the same thing in more or less successful ways. They are like apples and oranges: different because we desire variety.

The zero-sum assumption, that there's room only for one big seller, looks to me like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Heck, why should it matter what we want (and why) unless that has some relevance to shaping what is and shall be?

I don't see any advantage in only one game being widely advertised, or whatever the heck you mean by "dominant". That's just being "rich" by comparison with a neighbor who is being kept "poor".

 

[Hussar]

Sorry, I thought the discussion had become reasonable and respectful, on both sides.

For once I agree with RC. Not butting heads, just disagreeing.

But, fair enough, consider it dropped.

 

[Starfox]

For once I agree with RC. Not butting heads, just disagreeing.

This be good fightin' words!

The one thing we agree on is that we must fight!

Arrrrr!