Do you care about quality editing in RPG supplements and press releases?

[mythusmage]

I used to be an editor for a game publisher, and I would never judge a potential writer by what they wrote on a message board. A message board has nothing to do with writing a gaming product. Why should I care about my writing skills on a message board? I'm not getting paid for it and I'm not getting graded on it. Likewise, why should an editor? It's like judging a potential writer by how they talk when they're drunk.

As far as I can tell, everybody and their great uncle Willy can edit for a game publisher. That is really nothing to boast about.

As to message board versus 'professional' writing. Bad habits sir, bad habits. Poor spelling, grammar, and composition on a message boards shows laziness of thought, and indicates poor writing skills in other areas. A person who slacks off in one arena tends to slack off in others. Fact of life.

Then there's the matter of first impressions. I know that first impressions aren't always accurate, but more often than you think, they are.

So you wouldn't base any assesment of a writer's skills on what he posted on a message board. Trouble is, what he produces for a forum is likely to be what he produces for publication. Habit. Go to any message board where professionally published writers post -and by professionally published I mean writers published by mainstream publishers, and take careful note of the quality of their message board writing.

My point?

They care. They care about how they come across, how effectively they communicate their ideas. They care about the quality of their writing, regardless of the venue. Can you trust people who writes poorly on a bulletin board to care? To care enough to do their best instead of doing only what they think is necessary? I submit you can't. I don't trust people who abuse animals when they think they aren't being watched. I will not trust someone who is a sloppy writer when he's sure it doesn't matter. Remember, character is what you are when you think your behavior doesn't count.

You are being graded, Ichabod, and so far you have yet to convince me you deserve a passing grade. The fact you defend incompetence alone confirms my assessment of your skills. That you do it with such vehemence is 'icing on the cake'. Some would call that defensiveness, a good indicator that you really don't believe in what you are saying.

I will continue to support good writing, even on message boards. Because it matters. Doing a good job matters, no matter what your teachers taught you in school. And if I can prevent even one person from going through what I did earlier in my life, I will consider my 'rants' against bad message board writing worth it.

BTW, I made a number of typoes in the message above, and even in this part. I went back and corrected them. Did me no harm. It won't kill you to proof your posts.

 

[Maggan]

Well, if that's how you feel

You are being graded, Ichabod, and so far you have yet to convince me you deserve a passing grade.

And here I was, believing that I got out of school, like 10 years ago, and NOW you tell me we're being graded for this?

Geez, had I known that I might have given my writing a brush-up.

Or maybe not. I never cared much for being graded.

But I mean, if anyone feels the need to grade people who post on this board, go ahead. Why not share the grades with the rest of us?

So that we know who is worthy, I mean.

Or, to put it another way, I think you are putting to much energy into this, mythusmage. Please just let it go, because there is a very high probability of a flame war catching on here.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Or, to put it another way, I think you are putting to much energy into this, mythusmage. Please just let it go, because there is a very high probability of a flame war catching on here.

I'm grading people's message board posts as a reflection of their social skills.

SOMEBODY'S FAILING!


Wulf

 

[ichabod]

As far as I can tell, everybody and their great uncle Willy can edit for a game publisher. That is really nothing to boast about.

In otherwords, you have no valid experience to back up your claims.

As to message board versus 'professional' writing. Bad habits sir, bad habits. Poor spelling, grammar, and composition on a message boards shows laziness of thought, and indicates poor writing skills in other areas. A person who slacks off in one arena tends to slack off in others. Fact of life.

No such fact. People need time to slack off, and if someone slacks off when nothing matters, there is no reason to downgrade them for it. All work and no play makes Jack a psychotic killer. Or at least a wife beater. And very often two arenas are irrelevant to each other. I know incredibly organized slobs, and great writers who couldn't orate their way out of a paper bag. One of my stat profs is a genius at stat, but he can't teach.

Then there's the matter of first impressions. I know that first impressions aren't always accurate, but more often than you think, they are.

If someone is so shallow to judge me solely by first impressions, I don't really care what their judgement is, and I wouldn't want to work for them.

So you wouldn't base any assesment of a writer's skills on what he posted on a message board. Trouble is, what he produces for a forum is likely to be what he produces for publication. Habit. Go to any message board where professionally published writers post -and by professionally published I mean writers published by mainstream publishers, and take careful note of the quality of their message board writing.

You are betraying your inexperience here. The first thing I learned as a freelance writer is that each editor is different, and you have to learn their quirks and write differently for each one. So a good writer isn't even going to produce the same work for two seperate publishers. And if you can demonstrate a statistical between casual writing and professional writing, fine. But I don't see any such thing. As for professional message boards, well, THEY'RE PROFESSIONAL! Of course the quality of writing is different. Editors are watching those boards and the posters know it. No one here is looking to hire me for my writing skills. And if they are (like the 'and' at the beginning of the sentence?) I'm not interested.

They care. They care about how they come across, how effectively they communicate their ideas. They care about the quality of their writing, regardless of the venue. Can you trust people who writes poorly on a bulletin board to care? To care enough to do their best instead of doing only what they think is necessary? I submit you can't. I don't trust people who abuse animals when they think they aren't being watched. I will not trust someone who is a sloppy writer when he's sure it doesn't matter. Remember, character is what you are when you think your behavior doesn't count.

Sure you can. Because they are doing exactly what is necessary for a message board. They are communicating so that others can understand them. Furthermore, writing has nothing has nothing to do with character. How well you writing is not a moral issue, and trying to equate bad grammar on a message board with torturing animals, you are just showing how little reason there is in your argumentation.

You are being graded, Ichabod, and so far you have yet to convince me you deserve a passing grade. The fact you defend incompetence alone confirms my assessment of your skills. That you do it with such vehemence is 'icing on the cake'. Some would call that defensiveness, a good indicator that you really don't believe in what you are saying.

I should have clarified that. I meant grades that matter. Your "grade" is not going to affect me recieving my masters degree, so it is irrelevant. I have never defended incompetence, I am defending those who competently post on message boards, and who you would hold to an absurd standard. Think about it, you are demanding professional behavior from nonprofessionals in a nonprofesssional forum. I would also like to point out that you are not grading me on my skills, but rather my content.

BTW, I made a number of typoes in the message above, and even in this part. I went back and corrected them. Did me no harm. It won't kill you to proof your posts.

I bet I made some typos above, and I didn't correct them. It's not going to kill me, or anyone else who reads my posts.

BTW, is hyperbole good writing where you come from?

 

[mythusmage]

In otherwords, you have no valid experience to back up your claims.

In other words, you don't notice the mistakes because they're part of the background noise. Something you've gotten used to.

No such fact. People need time to slack off, and if someone slacks off when nothing matters, there is no reason to downgrade them for it. All work and no play makes Jack a psychotic killer. Or at least a wife beater. And very often two arenas are irrelevant to each other. I know incredibly organized slobs, and great writers who couldn't orate their way out of a paper bag. One of my stat profs is a genius at stat, but he can't teach.

So the fact people tend to be bad at one thing or another justifies 'slacking off' on writing?

If someone is so shallow to judge me solely by first impressions, I don't really care what their judgement is, and I wouldn't want to work for them.

Bad news, bunky, by your criteria most every employer is shallow. They aint got time to put up with any attitude, especially from somebody who doesn't care how he comes across on an interview. You want to work in any type of economy you make a good impression or it's another meal of generic ramen.

You are betraying your inexperience here. The first thing I learned as a freelance writer is that each editor is different, and you have to learn their quirks and write differently for each one. So a good writer isn't even going to produce the same work for two seperate publishers. And if you can demonstrate a statistical between casual writing and professional writing, fine. But I don't see any such thing. As for professional message boards, well, THEY'RE PROFESSIONAL! Of course the quality of writing is different. Editors are watching those boards and the posters know it. No one here is looking to hire me for my writing skills. And if they are (like the 'and' at the beginning of the sentence?) I'm not interested.

Frankly, any editor who would accept sloppy writing is not someone I'd submit material to. So editors like different stuff, that's fine by me. But no editor worth his salary is going to accept crap for a professional publication.

By the way, professional writers don't always post to 'pro boards'. Sometimes they post to boards like this. Yet still they take pains to write well. It matters to them.

As for nobody looking for writers here, I was offered work based on my postings to a thread, and another publisher offered to assist with publication of projects of mine, once I had them done. In both cases I blew it (didn't get the work done), but at least I got the chance thanks to the care I took with my writing in a venue where, according to you, it doesn't matter.

Finally, for this section, you need to practise your sarcasm. Anger is important, but it should never overshadow your sense of humor.

Sure you can. Because they are doing exactly what is necessary for a message board. They are communicating so that others can understand them. Furthermore, writing has nothing has nothing to do with character. How well you writing is not a moral issue, and trying to equate bad grammar on a message board with torturing animals, you are just showing how little reason there is in your argumentation.

The problem is, they are doing only what is necessary, no more. To be brutal here, they are being very rude, expecting their readers to tolerate a level of incompetence and callousness we should not have to put up with. I come here to engage in communication, not to puzzle my way through an essay composed by some chap with no consideration for his readers.

I should have clarified that. I meant grades that matter. Your "grade" is not going to affect me recieving my masters degree, so it is irrelevant. I have never defended incompetence, I am defending those who competently post on message boards, and who you would hold to an absurd standard. Think about it, you are demanding professional behavior from nonprofessionals in a nonprofesssional forum. I would also like to point out that you are not grading me on my skills, but rather my content.

Wrong! Good spelling is not absurd. Good grammar is not absurd. Good compositional skills are not absurd. My problem is with those who don't care enough to do their best, regardless of venue. And with those who would excuse their behavior. You have defended incompetence. Defended it with great vigor and vehemence. You have stated on more than one occasion in this thread alone that proper use of English doesn't matter on a message board. Not in so many words, but you have said it for all intents and purposes. If that isn't defense of incompetence, then I've given birth to three echidnas

That, young man, is what I grade you on. Not your skills. Certainly not the content of your messages. I am grading your on the message you send, and in that you are failing. You are defending people who don't care. You are defending willful incompetence. It is that I object to.

I bet I made some typos above, and I didn't correct them. It's not going to kill me, or anyone else who reads my posts.

Would it have killed you to correct them?

BTW, is hyperbole good writing where you come from?

You need to raise your standards.

From your previous posts on this subject I had gotten the impression you were around college age. Nice to know I'm right. Your behavior through this whole affair has been all too typical of a young adult. Argumentative, defensive, full of just rage, and contemptuous of those who disagree with you. Somebody has dared to contradict you. Somebody has dared to tell you that you are wrong, and that offends your delicate sensibilities.

If good spelling is professionalism, then I demand professionalism. If good grammar is professionalism, then I demand professionalism. If good composition is professionalism, then I demand professionalism. So long as there is poor spelling, poor grammar, poor composition, I shall demand professionalism. So long as people excuse bad writing I shall demand professionalism. So long as people don't care, I shall demand professionalism. I care, and I will take people to task for how they post. Not what they post, how. How they spell, how they use punctuation, how they structure a sentence, their vocabulary. How they structure their argument, how they defend their position. And I will be keeping an eye on you. Your writing on these boards will be assessed. Not every posting, I don't have the time for that. But those I do catch will be weighed in the balance and I will comment upon them as exercises in writing. When your writing is good I will tell you so. When your writing is poor, you will hear of it from me. What gives me the right? You do. You have roused my ire, now you pay the price.

Think I was mean before? Now I'm starting to get miffed.:evil grin:

 

[FDP Mike]

Let's Get Back on Track, Eh

Er, Alan, you're being a bit foolish (in the etymological sense of the word).

I've seen you get on this hobby horse before; you really do no one any good, and you serve only to hamper your efforts by convincing people to tune you out because of your attitude and approach.

I think that you've actually stopped reading ichabod's posts. Now, you're just pressing home a point that was long ago past pressing home any further. Look at ichabod's posts carefully: they're quite well written, if not also rather diplomatic and measured.

This place really is not the forum to "grade" people and threaten them with unnecessary constant vigilance about their writing.

--------------------

That written, back to the topic at hand ....

According to the result's of the poll so far, 91.86% of voters feel that a well edited product is important to them. What I'm curious about is how much folks think this feeling represents d20/RPG consumers as a whole. I know that many people grumble about editing quality, but do purchasing trends in the industry support the notion that consumers in fact speak with their wallets and not buy poorly edited products?

My sense is that most people are willing to overlook certain issues of substandard editing for the "cool" factor or the "I must have that book!" factor. Perhaps only a minority of consumers who care strongly enough about textual cleanliness actually take a dedicated stance in not buying poor quality products, able to control the "cool" and "must have" urges ... to an extent.

I'm willing to submit that just a very few publishers feel the bite of their inattentiveness to editing, and that primarily so because word gets out and stays out -- i.e., the publisher develops a bad reputation that sticks. I'm also willing to submit that some publishers avoid such a bad reputation because they find ways to appeal to the "cool" and "must have" urges that distract from or gloss over a generally low-level concern for good, even professional editing. These points are not submitted lightly, as I see such situations played out often here on ENWorld in terms of how people react to certain publishers and their products, creating a disconnect between the praise for and the actual quality of a product.

Okay, discuss!


Take care,
Mike

 

[ichabod]

In other words, you don't notice the mistakes because they're part of the background noise. Something you've gotten used to.

Nonsequitor. 1-0 ichabod

So the fact people tend to be bad at one thing or another justifies 'slacking off' on writing?

No, I was responding to your other point about how laziness in one arena necessarily carries over into others. Please keep track of your own arguments. 2-0

Bad news, bunky, by your criteria most every employer is shallow. They aint got time to put up with any attitude, especially from somebody who doesn't care how he comes across on an interview. You want to work in any type of economy you make a good impression or it's another meal of generic ramen.

I'm not talking about continued attitude, which apparently to you means disagreement with your 'arguments.' I'm not being interviewed here. Your point is completely irrelevant. 3-0

Frankly, any editor who would accept sloppy writing is not someone I'd submit material to. So editors like different stuff, that's fine by me. But no editor worth his salary is going to accept crap for a professional publication.

Where did this come from? I said nothing about editors accepting sloppy writing. And again, this is not a professional publication I am submitting to an editor. Your attempt to put a silly point in my mouth is irrelevant. 4-0

By the way, professional writers don't always post to 'pro boards'. Sometimes they post to boards like this. Yet still they take pains to write well. It matters to them.

A belief presented as fact with no evidence to support it, and one that is provably false. I am a professional writer. I am posting on a nonpro board. I'm not taking any pains, because it doesn't matter to me. Additionally, your point is irrelevant as most people on this board are not pros. 5-0

As for nobody looking for writers here, I was offered work based on my postings to a thread, and another publisher offered to assist with publication of projects of mine, once I had them done. In both cases I blew it (didn't get the work done), but at least I got the chance thanks to the care I took with my writing in a venue where, according to you, it doesn't matter.

Ooh, point for you. On the other hand, having witnessed the level of 'professionalism' in this industry, I have no intrest in working for anyone who would be reading these boards. So there is no reason for me to bother. 6-1

Finally, for this section, you need to practise your sarcasm. Anger is important, but it should never overshadow your sense of humor.

Hmm, limp ad hominem. 7-1.

The problem is, they are doing only what is necessary, no more. To be brutal here, they are being very rude, expecting their readers to tolerate a level of incompetence and callousness we should not have to put up with. I come here to engage in communication, not to puzzle my way through an essay composed by some chap with no consideration for his readers.

Rude? Not spell checking is rude? You are completely out there. The only people I have ever had to even think twice about what they were saying are people who don't have English as a first language. If you can't read the posts around here, you need to practice your reading skills. If you think people struggling with Engish are rude, you're the one who is rude. I am so boggled by your attitude, I can't even score this one.

Wrong! Good spelling is not absurd. Good grammar is not absurd. Good compositional skills are not absurd. My problem is with those who don't care enough to do their best, regardless of venue. And with those who would excuse their behavior. You have defended incompetence. Defended it with great vigor and vehemence. You have stated on more than one occasion in this thread alone that proper use of English doesn't matter on a message board. Not in so many words, but you have said it for all intents and purposes. If that isn't defense of incompetence, then I've given birth to three echidnas

Let me be the first to say congratulations. No matter how many times you want to put a straw man argument into my mouth it's not going to work. What is the goal here? To communicate with other ENWorlders. If I don't spell check, if I don't go back and nit pick my grammar, my messages are still clear enough to be understood without problem by other members of this community. As are their posts. Therefore they are compently posting to a message board. You are demanding a professional standard which is not relevant here. 8-1

That, young man, is what I grade you on. Not your skills. Certainly not the content of your messages. I am grading your on the message you send, and in that you are failing. You are defending people who don't care. You are defending willful incompetence. It is that I object to.

Aah, second ad hominem. And again, your grade is irrelevant. Third, how is objecting to the message I send different from objecting to the content? The content is the message. 9-1

Would it have killed you to correct them?

Repition, 10-1

You need to raise your standards.

I'm sorry, how does your use of hyperbole require me to raise my standards?

From your previous posts on this subject I had gotten the impression you were around college age. Nice to know I'm right. Your behavior through this whole affair has been all too typical of a young adult. Argumentative, defensive, full of just rage, and contemptuous of those who disagree with you. Somebody has dared to contradict you. Somebody has dared to tell you that you are wrong, and that offends your delicate sensibilities.

Nice to see your perceptions are consistent. I'm 33. I got my undergrad degree a long time ago, ran my own business, did freelance writing, editing in gaming and electronic publishing, and decided to go back to school to get my masters in statistics, after being fed up with the lack of professionalism in the game industry I dreamed of working in. As for your description, it describes you, not me. I appear defensive only because I sit here and deflect your poor arguments. Rage is accusing poor spellers of being rude animal torturers. As a trained linguist, I am contemptuous of those who think they can control language in all forms based on things written in books by elitists, who don't realize that language is constantly evolving in the intuitions of native speakers. As a trained philosopher, I am contemptuous of those who enter into an argument without an understanding of logic and reason, who think by sheer volume and agression they can win. 11-1

You don't understand me at all. If there is one thing I can't stand, it is a lack of professionalism in professional arenas. There is not a week that goes by that I do not feel the pain of giving up my dreams of becoming a game designer, but I cannot deal with what passes for professional behavior among the majority of publishers. There are certainly exceptions, but few and far between. However, this is not a professional forum, and such concerns are not relevant here. I will not suffer a professional who isn't, but neither will I require professionalism from hobbyists. For I have seen death, and I know life is too short.

You admit you have failed twice in professional situations. I think it is you who are defensive, railing against others for not doing what you should have done, when they don't need to. My advice to you is to get your priorities in order.

I snipped your tedious rant about how you are going to come after me and my bad writing. Did I mention that I'm scared? Seeing as you have devolved into irrelevancies, repitition of countered points, and ad hominem, I'm going to call this a win and stop posting here.

 

[mythusmage]

Non[-]sequitor. 1-0 ichabod

How so?

No, I was responding to your other point about how laziness in one arena necessarily carries over into others. Please keep track of your own arguments. 2-0

Your proof?

I'm not talking about continued attitude, which apparently to you means disagreement with your 'arguments.' I'm not being interviewed here. Your point is completely irrelevant. 3-0

How so?

Where did this come from? I said nothing about editors accepting sloppy writing. And again, this is not a professional publication I am submitting to an editor. Your attempt to put a silly point in my mouth is irrelevant. 4-0

Where did I say you said that?

A belief presented as fact with no evidence to support it, and one that is provably false. I am a professional writer. I am posting on a nonpro board. I'm not taking any pains, because it doesn't matter to me. Additionally, your point is irrelevant as most people on this board are not pros. 5-0

On this you missed my point. Professional writers care about how they come across regardless of the venue. Since you' apparently, do not, your claim to be a professional writer can only be taken with a grain of salt.

Ooh, point for you. On the other hand, having witnessed the level of 'professionalism' in this industry, I have no intrest in working for anyone who would be reading these boards. So there is no reason for me to bother. 6-1

And thus our Mr. O'Brien insults most everybody in the RPG industry. At least those making an effort to produce professional work. And he wonders why I'm on his case.

Hmm, limp ad hominem. 7-1.

How so?

Rude? Not spell checking is rude? You are completely out there. The only people I have ever had to even think twice about what they were saying are people who don't have English as a first language. If you can't read the posts around here, you need to practice your reading skills. If you think people struggling with Engish are rude, you're the one who is rude. I am so boggled by your attitude, I can't even score this one.

Damn right it's rude. If you don't care enough about your readers to check the spelling of your post, then don't post. And don't give me any crap about "what readers", you post on a public or private messageboard you have readers. You are, in a sense, publishing, and publishing to an audience. By being lazy about spelling, grammar, and composition you are insulting that audience. The mark of a professional writer is that he treats all he writes to as paying customers.

Where those who know English as a second language are concerned, I refuse to cut them any slack. The more they practice proper English, according to present day standards, the easier it will be for them in the future. I will not patronize anyone.

Let me be the first to say congratulations. No matter how many times you want to put a straw man argument into my mouth[,] it's not going to work. What is the goal here? To communicate with other ENWorlders. If I don't spell check, if I don't go back and nit pick my grammar, my messages are still clear enough to be understood without problem by other members of this community. As are their posts. Therefore they are compe[te]ntly posting to a message board. You are demanding a professional standard which is not relevant here. 8-1

In other words, you don't think the readers of ENWorld message board postings are worth taking the extra time it would take to do a simple proofreading. Nice to know the esteem you hold us in.

Aah, second ad hominem. And[,] again your grade is irrelevant. [H]ow is objecting to the message I send different from objecting to the content? The content is the message. 9-1

You're not into sub-text and deconstruction, are you? To make it simple for you, I was referring to how you deliver your message. There's also a lot to be learned from how a person says something, and in what they don't say.

Repit[it]ion, 10-1

How so?

I'm sorry, [but] how does your use of hyperbole require me to raise my standards?

Your standards regarding hyperbole are too low. In some circles my words would be considered understatements.

Nice to see your perceptions are consistent[,] I'm 33.[1] I got my undergrad degree a long time ago, ran my own business, did freelance writing, editing in gaming and electronic publishing, and decided to go back to school to get my masters in statistics[.] [This] after [getting] fed up with the lack of professionalism in the game industry I [had] dreamed of working in.[2] As for your description, it describes you, not me. I appear defensive only because I sit here and deflect your poor arguments.[3] Rage is accusing poor spellers of being rude animal torturers.[4] As a trained linguist, I am contemptuous of those who think they can control language in all forms based on things written in books by elitists, who don't realize that language is constantly evolving in the intuitions of native speakers.[5] As a trained philosopher, I am contemptuous of those who enter into an argument without an understanding of logic and reason, who think by sheer volume and agression they can win.[6] 11-1

1. My perceptions are consistent because you consistently act like someone in their early twenties, instead of responding in the mature manner your age would call for.

2. Fine, you've been published and you've done some editing. But now you're showing the same lack of professionalism you accuse the RPG business of exhibiting.

3. Deflecting my arguments? When will it start?

4. When did I do that? That was hyperbole.

5. Now that is a non sequitor. The issue here has nothing to do with linguistic evolution, it has to do with spelling, grammar, and compositon in postings to a message board. How written American English changes in the course of a century has nothing to do with it.

6. Appeal to authority. Even worse, appeal to self authority. That tell me far more than you think about you. Not liking another's argument does not render it invalid. You make it worse by admitting you hold me in contempt, thus hoping to make me react in an emotional, negative fashion. If this is an indication of your grasp of rhetoric, you need to go back to school.That aside, who has been reacting with volume and agression? Remember, it's not only what you say, it's how you say it.

You don't understand me at all. If there is one thing I can't stand, it is a lack of professionalism in professional arenas. There is not a week that goes by that I do not feel the pain of giving up my dreams of becoming a game designer, but I cannot deal with what passes for professional behavior among the majority of publishers. There are certainly exceptions, but few and far between. However, this is not a professional forum, and such concerns are not relevant here. I will not suffer a professional who isn't, but neither will I require professionalism from hobbyists. For I have seen death, and I know life is too short.

So you take your anger out on us. Why not start your own company? It's not that expensive. Start producing your own products according to your own standards. Show people how it's done, instead of complaining about the industry's standards. Raise the bar, dammit, instead of complaining about how low it is.

Now, call my any name you feel like, but I have known death more times than you could ever imagine. Had I not drowned (a suicide) I'd be somebody else and about 67. I know life is short, but it is never too short to take pains where how you come across to others is concerned. I don't expect true professionalism from hobbyists. They show professionalism then good for them, but I will not demand it from them. From you, a professional, then I expect professionalism. Is your life so busy you literally have no time to correct your messages before posting them here? Or do you have no consideration for your readers?

You admit you have failed twice in professional situations. I think it is you who are defensive, railing against others for not doing what you should have done, when they don't need to. My advice to you is to get your priorities in order.[/qoute]

Shifting the blame I see. Yes, I blew it. My doing, my fault. Now show us how my errors excuse your errors.

I snipped your tedious rant about how you are going to come after me and my bad writing. Did I mention that I'm scared? Seeing as you have devolved into irrelevancies, repitition of countered points, and ad hominem, I'm going to call this a win and stop posting here.

That reminds me of the rationale the pro-war gang gave for bringing our boys home from 'Nam, "Let's declare victory and go home." I suspect though that Mr. O'Brien will be back. He'll want the last word.

The corrections to the portions quoted here are my doing. Unlike some who post to these boards Ichabod makes few mistakes. This is to his credit. That he refuses to correct them, when it would take so little time out of his busy schedule, speaks badly of him.

BTW, I likely missed a few errors both on his part and mine. In my case pointing them out will result in their correction. Let it not be said I demand of others a standard I will not adhere to.

 

[Henry]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I will give the participants in this thread one chance to calm down and stop roasting one another with the flames of editorial hell.

 

[mythusmage]

Okay, just a request for Ichabod.

Ichabod, you already produce dang clean copy, why not do the right thing and correct the few mistakes you do make? It can't take that much time, and you'll make a better impression on your readers.