Do you kill PCs?

[Shalewind]

I've seen a lot of differing opinions on how to deal with characters dying. I'm with a roup that thinks spells like raise dead and resurrection are kinda cheesy (then again, I DM in a more realistic-fantasy setting). That being said, I've got a few points I'd like to see some opinions on.

Many have spoken that the threat of death needs to be present in every adventure, else there is no suspense. I must ask, what does the threat of death really mean if the PCs have such access to miraculous "back from the dead" spells? Further, I disagree that this is needed to keep suspense. I personally never kill a PC off (permanently) unless it is a constructed scene that we have agreed upon or I give them the option after a very heroic scene. My players have a lot at stake in the combats though. Their friends can die (NPCs) and their performance in battle determines several other things. They want to be a key part of the fight and story, so their success in battle is still suspenseful.

For those of you that do play in a realistic-fantasy setting, do you employ these raising spells? If so, how do you implement them?

For those of you that do kill PCs off permanently, does this disrupt things? I think that a player has put a lot of effort into a character and deserves to see them through the end of the chronicle if they wish. Emotional attachment aside, the whole story and group unity issue must be addressed if the character brings in a totally new PC. How do you deal with these issues if the same adventuring group has been around for a year or more (IRL)?

Just some things for thought.

 

[Fenes 2]

I share Shalewind's stance.

I do not kill off PCs, and surely not for a bad die roll. I give a player a warning if they are preparing to do something that is suicidal, and if they want to go ahead, then heads may roll - I will wash my hands off.

This allows me to forego the raise dead spells, and allows for more variety in character concepts - you don't have to play it "smart" to survive IMC.

I know some need the threat of PC death to enjoy a game, but for me it was always the opposite: Worrying about my PC made a game a lot less fun for me, and drove me to minmax, even rule lawyering, and paranoid behaving PCs.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not big on killing people. However, if they die they die, I don't go out of my way to kill them. I perfer giving pain and misfortune. I do think resurection spells are to common.

 

[Privateer]

I don't allow raising spells in my game, unless used by the truly divine (celestials and Gods); otherwise, they're just too anti-climactic for my tastes.

Noble: Woe! The King has been killed!

PC Cleric: Oh, sod. Just a second.

*brilliant flash of light*

King: Wha...?

PC Cleric: All better!

It also kind of underscores the value of assasins when the only targets that stay dead are the ones that are too poor to matter in the first place.

My players don't mind this, however, as I give them minor leeway in their combats and use the Swashbuckling Cards that were created here for another combat boosting.

 

[Tonguez]

Instead of outright killing a PC I tend to opt for crippling injuries (ie severed hands, blindness) in most cases and outright death only in very rare cases where it has dramatic effect (and the player is ready for the drama)

I also have all PCs belong to groups (families, religious orders, military academies, guilds) which the players design and populate with the PCs aquaintances, friends and family. if a replacement PC is required it is drawn from this group (and thus has some memories of and shared history with the former character - and can justifiably inherit his property)

I do not use the raise dead spells but do allow a quest to the realm of the dead in order to recover a spirit (within 3 days of the characters death)* ie death because another excuse for adventure!

 

[Ravellion]

Sure, I kill PC's. Yes, it's a pain every now and then, and I do have raises. I have noticed that even my players feel that raise dead is kind of cheesy, no matter how much they were attached to the character to begin with. It was also a bit of a pain IMC to keep the story going with half the group (2 PC's) dying in a non-climatic encounter.

Nevertheless, that threat needs to be there. I'd sooner stop raising and keep killing then just stopping to kill PC's altogether. I just know my players also like the threat, and keeps them on their edge of the seat when they are low on HP and the Dragon makes his attack maneuvre. My players will always more or less minmax their characters anyway, and I run a pretty tight ship with the rules as well. If they are going to survive, they'd better just come up with good ideas.

Rav

 

[Stalker0]

I allow raise dead spells, but nothing higher than that.

The assasination thing is easy, just assume that when a person dies they don't want to return. Problem solved.

I don't go out of my way to kill players, but since I do allow raise dead, I can somewhat take the kid gloves off. A person losing a character they've played for awhile and then feeling sore about it can seriously just flatten the rest of an adventure. This way, they take a big penalty for dieing (level loss) but they are still in the game.

 

[Emongnome]

In a Dungeon Magazine Issue some time back (I think), there was a suggestion to use what's called "Heroic" points to hand to the players. How they're distributed is up to the DM, but it could involve good role-playing, resolving a difficult situation, completion of an adventure, ect. If a character is faced with an attack or other that would kill them, they can elect to cash in a point to perform a "Heroic" act that saves them: Avoiding a deadly dragon breath weapon, catching themselves before falling to their death, ect. Also, maybe use them to grant an automatic critical hit against a difficult foe. Use discretion with these, they are meant to allow the players to feel heroic, even keep them alive, not be a crutch for getting out of every difficult situation. I haven't implemented them yet (still working out details on how and when they can be used) mostly because my party is very inexperienced and I use "kid gloves" on them. For now, simply rolling dice and killing things is excitement enough, but I've had them in a couple of situations where they have been concerned about losing a battle. I'll challenge them more as they get better, but as for killing them, I told them that I won't let a few unlucky dice rolls kill them off, but I won't go out of my way to save them, so death will be a possibility. I think that character death (even permanent) isn't a bad thing, but, as a DM, you have to know your players enough to make the game as fun for them as possible. If they know that their decisions affect the life of their character and accept that, even want that, that's the best way to go. I guess there's no set rule on this, it's about everyone having fun playing the game they love.

 

[Vexed]

Allowing raise spells

I think what you might want to institute is a better structure in religion to your campaign. This would make bringing someone back from the dead a little more hard and reduce the who cares I can pay 8,000 & get resurrected..

Good clerics are not going to raise just anyone and not unless it is for a good reason. Examples of when good clerics would raise dead or resurrect someone would be to bring back a legend or great hero to combat a evil. Someone who died in their service. Also, they may not want to come back from heaven after going to their god, their spirit may be at peace with their God or the specific religion may view if someone died it meant their God determined their time was up or had fulfilled their destiny.

Evil clerics would not raise just anyone either. They would do it for profit or power. Examples would be bringing back a ancient powerful warrior or wizard to aid their cause or lead their people or church in a cause. They would defiantly not do it out of kindness of their heart.

As for the neutral both good and evil . The reasons would vary and they might be more willing to raise or resurrect someone based on the deeds they performed for a *moderate fee. (I could see a cleric of Waukeen doing this under certain circumstances).

Of course in all these scenarios alignment factor would play a part along with the characters history, who they are and impact in the kingdom or world they have. Even if your some rich bastard money won't always buy you everything..

All this would not only apply to bringing back from dead, but virtually every other service a cleric or church provides. Well how did you get cursed? did you deserve it you sick freak? Well you will have to accept an atone spell to get that removed ;-).

How did you get hurt stealing from someone?trying to kill someone? yes we can heal you wait here while we fetch a healer. Then they return with the guards. They heal you enough so you don't die or get infection and your arrested.

A big thing to remember that Religion motivates everything when it comes to clerics & churches. Many good or evil will want to use people to further their own religion & causes. They might request services or information for the healing, remove poison or to send a cleric with you. Of all the power players and governments. Churches & religion have throughout history been the biggest power mongers and behind the scenes manipulators. It should come to no surprise in a fantasy world it's the same.

 

[ZR]

I think that the level loss and sitting on your hands is a huge insentive to stay allive.
I agree that RD etc. allows you to take off the gloves.
In my game there are 10 PC's. It is impossible to make it chalenging without expecting player death.
TPK's is the only Nono as I see it.