Do you like being saved? Or the Dues ex machina in action

[Mr. Wilson]

Only once ever have I gone back and said an encounter simply never happened and I've never used an in game Deux Ex Machina that wasn't planned for plot reasons.

The one terrible mistake I made (even after DMing for 10 years at that point) was in a random encounter I rolled on the fly. My players stumbled upon a flock of 10 cockatrices for a group of 4 3rd level players and 3 were turned to stone before they could even take action. The 4th was turned to stone trying to flee later in the round.

I probably could have come up with a better solution had I not panicked, but it was a brutal, brutal mistake on my end and I just wanted it fixed.

I have no problem TPKing a party, nor killing PCs (the players joke my DM screen is filled with skull and crossbones marking each dead PC), but I hate killing players over my fault.

I will also say that PC deaths in my 4E game have gone down drastically (except during Fourthcore one offs), but I think this is more in line with a change in my DM style more than the system (concentrating more on story/politics as oppossed to dungeon delving).

I'm getting ready to start a 4E hexcrawling campaign that will be more deadly, as befitting the theme.

 

[Ringlerun]

I do not believe deus ex machina should ever be used. I have no problem with my characters dying. Doesnt take that long to create another one.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I dont ike being saved perrsonally. However the example in the OP involves a GM misjudging an encounter so I can see how he might of panicked. At the same time, i prefer a range of challenges (some too hard, some too easy and some just right)...choosing which encounters to engage, flee, negotiate etc s part of the fun. In this case, surrender should have been a viable option on the part of the players. The GM could have made it clear the odds were against them opoened up the game to choices along those lines.

Ultimately though, it is very easy to sit here after the fact and propose our ideal solutions. In the moment, it can be difficult for a GM under those circumstances.

 

[riotshieldnation]

It's funny, I just had a conversation about this with a friend a day ago, and he claimed "If I'm ever going to accidentally pull a TPK, expect ghosts. Lots of ghosts. Like Casper and **** coming to the rescue."

Me? For a real fight, I'd likely just start lying about my dice rolls behind the screen to make it at least close, and if that doesn't work, I'd brave the TPK. You have to have that threat looming over their heads as a GM if you're ever going to demand any respect >.

However, if it was a random encounter that was totally OP, all my fault, and killed them as opposed to knocking them out, I think I'd just suggest a do-over, as horrible of a story killer as it is. I don't have any hardcore RPers in my group and I don't think they'd mind too much. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[philiprambo]

Re:

Good post.Keep posting.

 

[Yora]

I might do something a little different than your GM. Say I realized I had misjudged the encounter, and want to give the players a break. I decide that there are air canisters that can explode. I might make each character make an observation roll, to notice the existence of the canisters. Then you'd have to shoot one.

I think a more elegant idea would be to have an enemy hit a canister close to the PCs, but actually out of range to injure them. That way the players make the connection that there's a way to help themselves, and it doesn't feel so much like you add an emergency button to escape a fight they can't win.

Generally, I don't have PCs die because a random or generic encounter turns unexpectedly bad. But they can lose a fight in many ways without being killed. That seems much better to me.

 

[gamerprinter]

IME the only thing worse than fudging and trying to conceal it, is fudging and then actually telling the players you fudged.

A better approach is a Fate Point type mechanic that puts control in the hands of the PCs.

Perhaps, but my players are my friends and we're more open to mistakes that each might commit. We don't lie to each other, nor do we have perceptions of each being perfect in any way. Perhaps your not as mature. Sure, when I was 20 and playing the game, I might have been self conscious, but that was when I was a kid. I'm nearly 50 years old, why would I play mind games with my friends and try to hide mistakes???

I have tried Fate, and its not my flavor of game - as a player, I didn't care for the game. I'm not the only GM in the party (3 of us do that task, and none of us are perfect.)

My friends are more important to me, than some need to seem the perfect GM to anyone.

Truthfully, it's difficult to make balanced encounters in my group, because we have 7 players right now, sometimes 6, and I find more than 5 players as more difficult to create balance and still be a tough encounter. If the players bite more than they can chew, that's their problem. But if I screw up badly, I don't want to kill off the party, due to my mistake.

Just last week, I killed off a PC, and brought 4 to single digits - that was a tough and fun encounter, and I didn't back off an inch. I usually don't screw up.

 

[S'mon]

Perhaps, but my players are my friends and we're more open to mistakes that each might commit. We don't lie to each other, nor do we have perceptions of each being perfect in any way. Perhaps your not as mature.

Yes, it must be because I'm immature and play with people I don't like.

 

[gamerprinter]

Yes, it must be because I'm immature and play with people I don't like.

I didn't say you were, I said perhaps, as I don't know you, or your circumstances. Mine aren't bothered by such things, so I don't feel the need to hide when I screw up, and I do screw up. I'm not perfect by a long shot.

 

[S'mon]

Last Sunday I killed 3 out of 4 PCs running the 'Black Fang's Dungeon' from the Pathfinder Beginner Box.

The PCs had fought Black Fang the dragon, wounded him badly (to 17hp), driven him off (as per the module GMing instructions), and cleared the dungeon, garnering heaps of magic and gold. Their big mistake came when they then decided to hunt down the wounded dragon. They found him after two days (healed to 29hp) holed up in a cave by an icy riverbank. *This* time he was ready for them - surprise, breath attack, charge, full attack - and it was all over.

I don't regret it; the dragon was objectively less tough than before (29/54hp), but in reality much deadlier, because it was at bay; it had learned to fear them, it set up a simple killing zone and gave them everything it had.

I was sorry the PCs got slaughtered, but I'd do it again anytime.