Do you like spell and effect durations?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Eh..go retro with the buffing durations (as discussed above) and just limit the number of active buffs you can benefit from.

For example:

1) limited by slots, like items.

2) limited by raw absolute numbers, say, 1 per 3 PC levels.

3) buff all you want, but only the most recent X are active, the rest are dispelled by subsequent buffs

4) buff all you want, but only X are active at any one time. The recipient PC can choose round by round which effects are active.

Each has different applications, strengths and flaws.

 

[Lanefan]

I've never had a problem with time-based spell durations.

Sometimes when a combat goes longer than expected the pre-cast spells start running out - party has to decide whether to re-cast in mid-combat or not. (this happened last weekend in my game)

As for figuring out a caster's level by how long her spells last, it's trivial to add a random rider to spell durations if it's a problem.

The one-round summon monster is also easily fixable: either a) do like 1e and don't have monster summon spells below 3rd level (thus must be 5th+ to cast) or b) have the very low-level monster summon spells have a set duration - say, 1d3* + 2 rounds - with no by-level component.

* - if you really wanted to get fancy the die size could be your caster level, giving a higher-level caster a not-guaranteed chance of getting a decent duration and still keeping a by-level (average) increase.

Lan-"wake me up when my spells run out"-efan

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Eh..go retro with the buffing durations (as discussed above) and just limit the number of active buffs you can benefit from.

For example:

1) limited by slots, like items.

2) limited by raw absolute numbers, say, 1 per 3 PC levels.

3) buff all you want, but only the most recent X are active, the rest are dispelled by subsequent buffs

4) buff all you want, but only X are active at any one time. The recipient PC can choose round by round which effects are active.

Each has different applications, strengths and flaws.

Or if you use something like I discussed in the last post, then stack the difficulty numbers on the sustains. The more spells you have going, the more likely you are to lose them when you need them most.

I like mechanics like this rather than hard limits, because even though there are still mathematical points at which hard limits occur, no one wants to get near them. It leaves you in this fuzzy area where each player has a real decision to make. Do you want 2 reliable buffs, 3 somewhat less reliable buffs, or 4+ buffs where you pretty much know that you'll lose a couple as soon as something goes awry?

 

[JamesonCourage]

I've always preferred a length of in-game time. It's basically an immersion, thing: it really kills it for me when it's an "encounter" or "scene" or something in the game; I see the upside in this sort of mechanic, but as someone who prefers to immerse, it separates me from my character whenever I activate that type of effect. This would be particularly bad if I'm playing a spellcaster, and every spell is like this!

I'm also a fan of "operational play" and the like. I think it's interesting working within limitations, too; if I forgot to bring a rope, I don't want to be told "sure, you have one with you, just mark the coin off" and go from there. No, I'd rather problem-solve, and figure out a way to proceed now that I'm missing a rope. (Now, if there's a standard operating procedure, like "here's when I string or unstring my bow", "after every battle, I'm going to retrieve my throwing weapons", etc., then it's a fine assumption to make.)

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or not on this topic, but there's my reasoning why: immersion. So, this also means getting away from "x/caster level" and the like (for me, at least), since that too hurts my immersion. As always, play what you like

 

[babomb]

Another random idea (well, not really random - magical flight is a potential balance and gameplay issue in my experience):
Fly
You or another creature you touch gains 60 ft flight. The spell stays active as long as you and the target are conscious, and neither you nor the target have taken an extended rest.
Maintaining the spell requires some concentration. If you cast another spell while Fly is still active on the target, the target descends 60 ft. If you do not spend an action on your next turn to stabilize the spell, the target descends another 60 ft and the spell ends. If the target is still in the air, the target falls the remaining height.

I like this idea better than your original, but I'd say go even further with it. Rather than putting a specific limit on fly, maybe you can only have X spell levels active at a given time.

Say you want to do the invisible flying wizard thing. Well, Fly is level 3, and Improved Invisibility is level 4, so that's 7 levels you have active. Now, even instantaneous spells are briefly 'active', so if your limit is 9, you can only cast 2nd level spells or lower without dismissing one of the other spells, which means no fireballs. (Or maybe you can if you pass an Int check with DC 10 + spell level + number of levels over the limit, thanks to Mordenkainen's Uncertainty Principle.)

 

[Falling Icicle]

I much prefer simple spell durations. More specific durations have never added anything positive to my gaming experience. On the contrary, I've found them to be a completely unnecessary annoyance. I hate having to keep track of spell durations in combat, especially the 1 round/level ones of the past. I also hated 1 hour/level spells. I always wondered why my summoned monsters couldn't just last a whole battle and why things like mage armor couldn't just last all day.

The spell durations being tied to caster level was a real problem as well. Why bother with summon monster when it only lasts 1 round? I never ever took any summon monster spell prior to SM IV for that very reason.

I suggest they use the following durations in 5e:

- Instant
- Concentration
- 1 Round
- Save Ends (for most debilitating effects)
- One encounter (most buffs, summons, wall/cloud spells and other battle magic). Outside of battle these effects could last for 5 minutes, as in 4e.
- One day (mostly for long term buffs like mage armor)
- Permanent (usually only ritual spells would have this duration).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Regarding the 1-round duration buffs of 4E - it may be that this isn't really something that D&D Next should have in core. Combat is supposed to go much faster, and if you really have so many things to track, it will slow down the game. I expect that D&D Next's "core combat" experience will be with less mechanical detail and depth - that's the way it is right now in the play-test, and I don't expect big changes. Modules can change everything, of course.

So this may be how I'd condense it down:

• Concentration (Sustain)
• Until you cast another spell (similar to concentration, but you can do other things - for something like a Cleric-To-BattleMonster spell)
• Until you make an attack
• Until you move
• Until you save
• Until you take x damage (may allow subcategories, like "until you take 50 fire damage)
• Until you restore hit points (maybe: until you use a hit die)
• Until you take an extended rest

Falling Icicle list isn't bad either, but my list intentionally tries to avoid abstract time units like "encounter". Some people dislike it, and while 4E has the fallback "5 minutes = 1 Encounter", I explicitely want to avoid minutes as well.



Divine Might
You gain +2 to attacks and +1d10 damage to all melee attacks. The spell ends when you cast another spell, take an extended rest or spend a hit die.

Fly
You or the target gain a flight speed of 30 ft. The target keeps flying until you cast another spell, until you take 10 + caster level damage, or until you take an extended rest.

Bestow Curse (Non-Ritual Use)
The target has disadvantage on all attacks, ability checks and saves. It can make a Charisma save at the end of each round to end the effect.

Flaming Sphere
You create a flaming sphere with a 2 ft diameter. It occupies its space and inflicts 2d6 fire damage to anyone ending its turn adjacent to it. A Dexterity Save halves the damage. The spell requires Concentration to maintain. Each round you concentrate on the spell, you can move it up to 30 ft.

Overland Flight
You or the target gain a flight speed of 60 ft. You must concentrate on the spell to maintain it.

Baleful Polymorph
You turn the creature into a toad or similar non-dangerous creature. The spell lasts until you cast another Baleful Polymorph spell. (variant of "cast another spell: Only a specific other spell"). Each time you take an extended rest, the creature can attempt a Charisma save to end the effect.

Summon Monster
You summon a creature to your aid. It lasts until you take an extended rest or until you cast another Summon Monster spell. (another variant of until you cast another spelll - we don't want a zoo. The creature list should make sure having a 24 hour summon isn't unbalanced.)

Resist Elements
Choose one elemental damage type. The target reduces all damage from that elemental type by 10 points. Once the target has absorbed a total of 100 points of damage, the spell ends.

Protection from Elements
The target reduces all damage from elemental damage types by 10 points. Once the target has taken a total of 50 points of elemental damage, the spell ends. (unlike the resist spell, this spell does not track absorbed damage, but the actual taken damage after the resistance was applied. Which version is better, is it a good idea to have both?)

Mage Armor
You gain a bonus to your armor class. The effect lasts until you take an extended rest.

Shield
You gain a bonus to your armor class. The effect lasts until you have taken 10+Caster Level points of damage or until you have taken an extended rest.

 

[Yora]

I get that...but D&D isn't a Storyteller game. It's pretty crunchy. So on a certain level, its powers, spells and the like will be kinda crunchy, too.

It's crunchy because 3rd Edition decided that it had to be crunchy. No reason not to be more laid back about it again. Which seems to be what we are going to get.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Even 1Ed was crunchier than the Storyteller games. That said, I hope it doesn't go too far back in de-crunching...

 

[Frostmarrow]

I suggest you only can have one condition/blessing at any one time. All conditions and blessing comes with a severity rating. The condition/blessing with the highest severity (from 1-1000) trumps all others. The conditions and blessings thus trumped are considered healed or worn off in the shadow of the greater pain/boon.

Also, we need a condition called Fresh. Let's say Fresh has a severity of X. We also need a new spell called Make Fresh that gives you the condition Fresh at a random severity.

Example: I'm rested and ready for action. My condition is Fresh 1. My wizard casts Haste 13 on me. I act fast and everybody is in awe. A snake bites me, cause it was even faster, and I get Poisoned 450. Now, I need a pretty potent Make Fresh spell cast upon me by the Cleric or I'm goint to stay poisoned for quite some time.

If you go to bed Fresh X you wake up Fresh 1. See, I just fixed the 5 minute work day.