D&D 5E Do you like the simplicity of 5E monsters?

[Tzarevitch]

My chief complaint isn't that they have spells to look up, but that in the adventures themselves, they don't have the core stats listed under the respective encounter. So you're looking up monster stat blocks anyway. I much prefer the TSR way of including basic stats under each encounter.

Here's an example, using 5e's rules for my own campaign of what I'm talking about. I don't think it takes up too much space, especially if I don't have to look up a monster.

View attachment 63668

I have the same issue. The problem I have with 5e monsters is they aren't simpler. The layout is actually rather poor. You have to look spells up and account for spell slots for any caster monster. Also the legendary actions are a pain to adjudicate. The Ancient Red Dragon for instance has three out of turn actions in addition to its own in-turn actions, and those actions have special restrictions so they can only be used after 3 other creature's turns. That's a lot of actions and they are spread out over 4 different turns. Also, for some reason the monster entries don't list all of the creature's saves in one place. Some have to be extrapolated directly from the stats but others are special and are found on a completely different line.

 

[Zaukrie]

Bad stat blocks is different than not having much variation in combat qction, but both are problems

 

[Nebulous]

I have to admit i'm a little disappointed by the simplicity of the monsters. On the other hand, it leaves HUGE room for tweaking and improvement going forward. A 3rd party monster manual might very well add in Frequency, Number Appearing, Environment and give the "standard" sack of hit point monsters an upgrade. If 5e is designed around modules then it makes sense to make monsters more complex with some kind of module.

Edit: and maybe (probably) just nostalgia but i like the old statblock format better from 1e.

 

[Nebulous]

What do 13th Age monsters do that is so cool? I've never seen the bestiary.

For the record, i do not like 13th Age because the class and powers system smells too much like 4th edition. That said, the designers took their monster manual cue from 4e as well, and 4e DID make some interesting monsters, one of the strengths of the system. Just as a quick example, an ogre in 13th Age

Big shove +9 vs. PD (each enemy engaged with ogre)—1d6damage, and the target pops free from the ogre
Quick use: This power only requires a quick action (once per round) instead of a standard action when the escalation die is even.
Nastier Specials
Tough skin: Whenever the ogre takes weapon damage, reduce that damage by 1d8 points.

In essence the ogre uses its mass and club to fling away attackers. It totally fits the image of an ogre.


13th AGE Owlbear
Rip and peck +9 vs. AC—15 damage, and until the end of theowlbear’s next turn, the target is hampered (makes only basicattacks) while engaged with the owlbear
Vicious hybrid: If the escalation die is even, make another rip
and peck attack.
Feed the cubs: An owlbear that scores a critical hit against ahampered enemy tears a piece of the creature off (GM choosesa limb) and will subsequently attempt to retreat with the prizeto feed its cubs. The torn-up enemy is stunned until the endof its next turn.
Silent hunter: Owlbears are nearly silent until they strike. Checksto hear them approaching take a –5 penalty.

 

[ExploderWizard]

THIS:

Silent hunter: Owlbears are nearly silent until they strike. Checksto hear them approaching take a –5 penalty.

combined with THIS:

Feed the cubs: An owlbear that scores a critical hit against ahampered enemy tears a piece of the creature off (GM choosesa limb) and will subsequently attempt to retreat with the prizeto feed its cubs. The torn-up enemy is stunned until the endof its next turn.

Creates quite a hilarious image.

" Bitten, during the night sir." " Ah I see, whole leg gone eh?" " So it will just grow back then will it?"

 

[CM]

A little disappointed that the big bads (dragons, bone devil, umber hulk, etc) we've seen previewed so far don't have one or two additional exception-based tactical options available.

One thing I did for my 4e Fallout game was create every NPC as a simple Type X (brute, soldier, leader, or controller) /Level Y that determined baseline stats. I then had made up a deck of playing cards each with a different attack or utility power (at-will, encounter, or daily), and dealt 2-3 of these to each NPC to use during play. Might end up doing the same thing for 5e humanoids.

Would love to see somebody step up and make a 5e monster supplement full of beefed-up statblocks for tactically deep essentials-era 4e-style creatures.

 

[Agamon]

Creates quite a hilarious image.

" Bitten, during the night sir." " Ah I see, whole leg gone eh?" " So it will just grow back then will it?"

Heh. When I read it, I thought, "Interesting."

Then I thought, "Imagine if D&D tried something like this."

Then I thought of the EN World forums. Then I had a good long belly laugh.

 

[Nebulous]

I think a future product adding enhanced exception based options to the existing monster state blocks is fantastic. Maybe I'm greedy but I'd like have to a free download of optional stat blocks. Is that being too unrealistic?

 

[Remathilis]

I am amazed people prefer this

[sblock]Adult Red Dragon: CR 15; Huge dragon (fire); HD 22d12+110, hp 253; Init +4; Spd 40ft., fly 150 ft. (poor); AC 29, touch 8, flat-footed 29; Base Atk+22; Grp +41; Atk +31 melee (2d8+11, bite); Full Atk +31 melee (2d8+11, bite), +26 melee (2d6+5, 2 claws), +26 melee (1d8+5, 2 wings), +26 melee (2d6+16, tail slap); Space/Reach15 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. with bite); SA breath weapon, crush, frightful presence, snatch, spell-like abilities, spells; SQ blindsense 60 ft., damage reduction 5/magic, darkvision 120 ft., immunity to fire, magic sleep effects, and paralysis, low-light vision, spell resistance 21, vulnerability to cold; AL CE; SV Fort +18, Ref +15, Will +17; Str 33, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 19, Cha 16.
Skills and Feats: Appraise +25, Bluff +19, Concentration +24, Diplomacy +20, Gather Information +14, Hide –8, Jump +37, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Knowledge (local) +18, Listen +26, Search +25, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +15, Spot +28; Cleave, Flyby Attack, Hover, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Snatch, Wingover.
Breath Weapon (Su): 50-ft. cone, 12d10 fire, Reflex DC 25 half.
Crush (Ex): Area 15 ft. by 15 ft.; Small or smaller opponents take 2d8+15 points of bludgeoning damage, and must succeed on a DC 25 Reflex save or be pinned.
Frightful Presence (Ex): 180-ft. radius, HD 21 or fewer, Will DC 24 negates.
Snatch (Ex): Against Small or smaller creatures, bite for 2d8+11/round or claw for 2d6+5/round.
Spell-Like Abilities: 6/day—locate object. Caster level 7th.
Spells: As 7th-level sorcerer.
Sorcerer Spells Known(6/7/7/5; save DC 13 + spell level): 0—arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, read magic, resistance; 1st—alarm, divine favor, magic missile, protection from good, shield; 2nd—cat’s grace, darkness, shatter; 3rd—dispel magic, protection from energy.[/sblock]to this

[Sblock] [/sblock]

 

[CM]

I am amazed people prefer this

[sblock]Adult Red Dragon: CR 15; Huge dragon (fire); HD 22d12+110, hp 253; Init +4; Spd 40ft., fly 150 ft. (poor); AC 29, touch 8, flat-footed 29; Base Atk+22; Grp +41; Atk +31 melee (2d8+11, bite); Full Atk +31 melee (2d8+11, bite), +26 melee (2d6+5, 2 claws), +26 melee (1d8+5, 2 wings), +26 melee (2d6+16, tail slap); Space/Reach15 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. with bite); SA breath weapon, crush, frightful presence, snatch, spell-like abilities, spells; SQ blindsense 60 ft., damage reduction 5/magic, darkvision 120 ft., immunity to fire, magic sleep effects, and paralysis, low-light vision, spell resistance 21, vulnerability to cold; AL CE; SV Fort +18, Ref +15, Will +17; Str 33, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 19, Cha 16.
Skills and Feats: Appraise +25, Bluff +19, Concentration +24, Diplomacy +20, Gather Information +14, Hide –8, Jump +37, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Knowledge (local) +18, Listen +26, Search +25, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +15, Spot +28; Cleave, Flyby Attack, Hover, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Snatch, Wingover.
Breath Weapon (Su): 50-ft. cone, 12d10 fire, Reflex DC 25 half.
Crush (Ex): Area 15 ft. by 15 ft.; Small or smaller opponents take 2d8+15 points of bludgeoning damage, and must succeed on a DC 25 Reflex save or be pinned.
Frightful Presence (Ex): 180-ft. radius, HD 21 or fewer, Will DC 24 negates.
Snatch (Ex): Against Small or smaller creatures, bite for 2d8+11/round or claw for 2d6+5/round.
Spell-Like Abilities: 6/day—locate object. Caster level 7th.
Spells: As 7th-level sorcerer.
Sorcerer Spells Known(6/7/7/5; save DC 13 + spell level): 0—arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, read magic, resistance; 1st—alarm, divine favor, magic missile, protection from good, shield; 2nd—cat’s grace, darkness, shatter; 3rd—dispel magic, protection from energy.[/sblock]to this

[Sblock]View attachment 63680[/sblock]

I think (and I have been known to be wrong before) that most of the people expressing dissatisfaction with 5e monster simplicity are advocating for an approach closer to the 4e versions than the 3e versions.

And those 4e versions are darn near identical to the 5e versions in substance except with one or two additional combat actions.

[sblock]
Elder Blue Dragon
Huge natural magical beast (dragon)

Level 20 Solo Artillery
XP 14000
HP 756; Bloodied 378 Initiative +13
AC 34, Fortitude 33, Reflex 30, Will 30 Perception+18
Speed 10, fly 12 Darkvision
Resist 15 lightning
Saving Throws +5; Action Points 2

Traits

• Uncontained Lightning (lightning) - Aura 5: While the dragon is bloodied, any enemy that ends its turn in the aura takes 10 lightning damage.
• Action Recovery: Whenever the dragon ends its turn, any dazing, stunning, or dominating effect on it ends.
• Instinctive Lightning: On an initiative of 10 + its initiative check, the dragon can use a free action to fly up to its speed and use lightning burst. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. If the dragon cannot use a free action to make this attack due to a dominating or stunning effect, then that effect ends instead of the dragon making the attack.

Standard Actions

• Gore (lightning) - At-Will: Attack: Melee 3 (one creature); +25 vs. AC; Hit: 4d12 + 16 lightning damage.
• Claw - At-Will: Attack: Melee 3 (one or two creatures); +25 vs. AC. If the dragon targets only one creature, it can make this attack twice against that creature; Hit: 4d8 + 13 damage.
• Lightning Burst (lightning) - At-Will: Attack: Area burst 2 within 20 (creatures in the burst); +25 vs. Reflex; Hit: 3d12 + 13 lightning damage.; Miss: Half damage.
• Breath Weapon (lightning) - Recharge 5-6: Attack: Close blast 20 (up to three creatures in the blast); +25 vs. Reflex; Hit: 4d12 + 16 lightning damage, and the target is dazed (save ends); Miss: Half damage.
• Thunderclap (thunder) - Recharge 5-6: Attack: Area burst 3 within 20 (creatures in the burst); +25 vs. Fortitude; Hit: 4d6 + 12 thunder damage, and the target is stunned until the end of the dragon’s next turn; Miss: Half damage, and the target is dazed until the end of the dragon’s next turn.

Triggered Actions

• Wing Backblast - At-Will: Trigger: An enemy hits the dragon with a melee attack; Attack (Immediate Reaction): Close burst 3 (enemies in the burst); +23 vs. Reflex; Hit: The target falls prone; Effect: The dragon flies up to half its speed. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.
• Bloodied Breath - Encounter: Trigger: The dragon is first bloodied; Effect (Free Action): Breath weapon recharges, and the dragon uses it.

Skills Athletics +22, Insight +18
Str 25 (+17) Dex 16 (+13) Wis 17 (+13)
Con 21 (+15) Int 15 (+12) Cha 16 (+13)
Alignment evil Languages Common, Draconic
[/sblock]

Tactically deep (especially for a 4e creature) and yet everything is self-contained in the stat block. No need to look up spell descriptions, snatch rules, fear rules, half a dozen different feat effects, and so on.