D&D 5E Do you think 5e is deadly enough and do you finish off downed characters?

[Micah Sweet]

Depends on how you want to define "deadly." My first 5E campaign went from level 1-18, with about a dozen or so deaths. However, the only one that was permanent was when the Cleric was the one who died, so Revivify wasn't available. They had no reasonable way to bring the body, so the PC was abandoned. Every other character has been saved by Revivify, Raise Dead, or the rare Wish. It's not hard to kill a PC, but after level 5 it gets hard to keep them dead.

I can't count a PC brought back via Revivify as actually dying; it's just too quick a turn-around. At least when you perform a Raise Dead or a Resurrection, death means something.

 

[DEFCON 1]

This sounds cool. I may adopt this for my current Ravenloft campaign. I've been thinking of a way to have lasting "wounds" and this is a pretty elegant way to model that without creating new/extra rules. I'm curious do you do anything different with how exhaustion is recovered or do you keep it by the book.?

I used the Exhaustion table and a lot of tweaks for my Ravenloft campaign, and then adapted things even further for my upcoming Theros campaign. I'm happy to put my full system here... but please note that I haven't actually ran / playtested it because the upcoming campaign is my playtest. I just built these rules after seeing what worked in Ravenloft, and other bits and bobs I wanted to see and change.

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Rests

• A Short Rest is 10 minutes, during which you may spend hit dice to regain hit points and regain features that refresh on a Short Rest.
• A Long Rest is 8 hours of light activity or sleep, after which you regain all of your spent hit dice, regain all features that refresh on a Long Rest, and you lose your level of exhaustion if currently at Level 1 (creatures at any higher exhaustion levels do not lose any.) You do not automatically regain all hit points following a Long Rest. The effects of a Short Rest are included at both the beginning and end of a Long Rest. (I.E. you may spend any remaining hit dice you have at the beginning of the Long Rest to regain hit points, and then may spend any new hit dice you just regained following the Long Rest to regain more hit points.)
• An Extended Rest is 24 hours of uninterrupted bed rest in a safe location and counts as a Short and Long Rest. You regain all hit points, all hit dice, all class features, and may possibly reduce levels of Exhaustion you currently have. At the end of the Extended Rest another character may attempt a WIS (Medicine) check. A successful DC 10 check reduces your Exhaustion level by 1, a DC 20 check by 2 levels, and a DC 30 check by 3 levels.

Dying and Exhaustion

• When a creature reaches 0 hit points, they are Dying. They remain Dying until they are Stabilized.
• A Dying creature has the Incapacitated condition (instead of Unconscious) and at the start of each of their turns make Death saving throws with a DC 10 to succeed. (An Incapacitated creature can’t take actions or reactions but may still move.)
• Every level of Exhaustion a creature has raises the DC by 1.
• Each failed Death saving throw causes one level of Exhaustion.
• Death occurs at Exhaustion Level 6 as per the Exhaustion chart (and not 3 failed Death saving throws as normal.)
• A creature may regain hit points while Dying (via abilities, spells and items as normal), but that does not remove the Incapacitated condition, does not stop the rolling of Death saving throws, and does not adjust or affect their Exhaustion level. They are still considered Dying even though they are no longer at 0 HP.
• To no longer be considered Dying (and thus remove the Incapacitated condition and stop the rolling of Death saving throws) requires the target to be Stabilized.

Stabilizing a Dying Creature

• A Dying creature that makes three successful Death saving throws or rolls a Natural 20 on a Death saving throw automatically Stabilizes.
• Another character adjacent to an Incapacitated character can attempt to Stabilize them by using an Action to make a WIS (Medicine) check with a DC equal to the target’s current Death save DC.
• Stabilizing a creature does not remove any levels of Exhaustion.
• A Stabilized creature has however many hit points they have received (if any) while Dying. A Stabilized creature who was not healed while Dying is still at 0 HP but can act normally.

Combat While Dying or Stabilized

• Any successful attack made on a Dying creature immediately results in one automatic failed Death saving throw.
• Any attack on a Dying creature that has hit points does not cause hit point damage but rather still causes an immediate automatic failed Death saving throw.
• An attack on a Stabilized creature causes hit point damage. If the creature is at 0 HP or the attack drops them back to 0 HP, it immediately ends the Stabilization and they are considered Dying again.
• A creature that begins Dying again has their successful Death saving throws reset to 0. Their Exhaustion level is at wherever it was previously.

Exhaustion Chart

• Level 1: Speed halved.
• Level 2: Max HP halved.
• Level 3: Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws.
• Level 4: Disadvantage on ability checks.
• Level 5: Unconscious.
• Level 6: Death.

 

[Nefermandias]

I think 5e combat is incredibly boring with how non-lethal it is outside of low levels, and I'm looking forward to the monster redesigns come 2024. If I had my druthers, monsters would die faster and hit harder.

Make characters die immediately at 0 instead of giving every goblin multiattack. Problem solved.

 

[FrogReaver]

You know, I think I'm going to start giving all enemies death saves and see what the PC's do. Then I can base enemy behavior on theirs.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

In my 1-20 campaign with 5 characters I had 3 deaths. One at 5th level, one at 7th level, and one at 19th level. Only one of those was permanent. It was exceptionally hard to kill characters at high level (and I have issues with how combat runs and how monsters are built) but it can be done. Three deaths over the course of a full campaign is the sweet spot for me. It demonstrated that choices have consequences but if the lethality was any higher it would become a drag for my players.

 

[jasper]

As of last night 318 sessions 104 dead pcs. Giving me a kill every third session. Offing people on death saves depends on the situation. Devil yes, High Int npc yes will go for the kill. Orc not so much.

 

[FireLance]

If you use the encounter building guidelines in XGtE, you will generally get Medium to slightly below Medium levels of encounter difficulty, which, to quote the DMG, "the characters should emerge victorious with no casualties".

This is what the game itself tells you to expect if you follow these guidelines. If you want a greater risk of PC death, run Hard or Deadly encounters instead.

That said, the game also assumes that the PCs do not have magic items. As you give the PCs more magic items, expect the encounters to get easier and easier and the risk of PC death to get lower and lower.

Speaking for myself personally, I like running games at a Medium level of difficulty on average, I like to keep the risk of PC death low to keep a consistent "cast" of PCs, so I don't feel the need to tinker with the game's default assumptions.

 

[Plaguescarred]

YMMV but personally i think context matters as well. When the party make random encounters with monsters, i don't mind it being easier than not. When i make set-piece encounters with major villains or final boss fights, i generally want them to be deadlier though.

 

[Oofta]

When it comes to how difficult D&D should be, I find that killing off PCs left and right is counter productive for me. The threat of death? Sure. But stacking up body counts? Death just ends a PC's story.

If a player is tired of running a PC, they can always just let me know if they want that PC to exit stage left at some point. I'll figure out a graceful way to have them disappear that makes sense to the story.

Of course different people play for different reasons and if your game looks like

Spoiler: this

and ya'll enjoy it, more power to you.

 

[overgeeked]

When it comes to how difficult D&D should be, I find that killing off PCs left and right is counter productive for me. The threat of death? Sure. But stacking up body counts? Death just ends a PC's story.

If a player is tired of running a PC, they can always just let me know if they want that PC to exit stage left at some point. I'll figure out a graceful way to have them disappear that makes sense to the story.

Of course different people play for different reasons and if your game looks like

Spoiler: this

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and ya'll enjoy it, more power to you.

I think that’s a clear difference of preferences. To me, the story is whatever happens during play. “What makes sense to the story” is what the players’ decisions dictate and what the dice decide. If that’s a single group of characters together for years, great. If that’s a never-ending revolving door of characters, great. It’s not my job to decide what the story is for the players. It’s all about their decisions and the dice.