D&D 4E Do you think WotC rebooting Forgotten Realms for 4e would be a good idea?

[Banshee16]

So for me, whilst the FR has become "more detailed", it's quality has not increased as a result, but rather decreased. I don't deny that some FR products have been awesome. Others have been trash, or so mediocre as to be wastes of paper, though, and mediocrity has by the "byword" of FR products since about 1994-5.

Wow....I didn't get into FR until late 2nd Ed., and through 3E. I spent a lot of money on mediocre products, I guess...

Banshee

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Someone tell me why all this is a good thing for the Realms? I'm a conservative Realms fan. I don't mind changes...but so many RSE within the span of a year, five years, 10 years? That's ludicrous.

Why is this a good thing for the Realms? Well, first and foremost it accomplishes the goal of explaining 4th edition:

The weave fell apart and it took nearly 10 years after the Spellplague before anyone even figured out how to cast spells again. Without the weave all magic started falling apart and although we managed to keep the world from falling apart with it, magic is...different. It's weaker. Things you used to be able to do as 1st level spells are now 5th level spells(assuming they make changes like this). Some spells that used to work in the old world just don't work at all. We need to use focuses(orbs, staffs, wands) in order to allow us to cast magic at full strength now. Now, since magic permeates everything, even mundane people can sometimes use it for some small benefit(assuming, from the comment from a designer about 4e having "more magic across the board").

It also manages to make the world less complicated for those of us who didn't know everything from every novel and realms book and yet have to deal with people who HAVE. I really don't want to have to explain to a player again why there isn't a shop on Baker Street in Waterdeep with a halfling who runs it like it is SUPPOSED to have (I know this isn't actually true, making up an example). Now, IF I wanted to start reading the novels now and start playing the game now, I can read the new information without needing the old.

It likely gets rid of most of the "little known but powerful character" syndrome that happens currently. Why isn't Bob Smith the character mentioned as a powerful wizard in book 3 of the Undersea Trilogy here to help us? I don't even know who that is. What? You say that in the book he restored the city with a single spell after all the walls were destroyed? Wow...he must be powerful. And you say he lives on this block?

It also adds more ruins, dangerous places, and unknowns to the campaign. Great for adventuring in. I'd love to run a campaign where part of it was exploring the ruins of the now destroyed Neverwinter where some foul creatures might make it their home now.

 

[Plane Sailing]

They already have destroyed the game and a famous setting along with it.

I agree with Ed Greenwood on everything, especially how the "neighborhood changes and it'll never be the same, wonderful original it was before". But I do disagree with him on one thing: nothing in anyone's right mind can they say all these changes to D&D, from 4th Edition to 4th Edition Forgotten Realms, is going to be a GOOD thing.

Moderator/
Razz, I understand that you are upset about the changes.

In the light of your comments above though, I wonder whether the 4e forum is the place where you are going to have most fun on ENworld. If you consider that "nobody in their right mind can say all these changes... is going to be a good thing", hanging around in a forum where the majority of people are discussing potential changes with interest is going to end up rubbing you the wrong way, and may lead you to post something you regret.

Regards

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

It took me some time but I eventually voted "Bad".

The reason it took me so long is that I don't like the Realms but it's possible I might like a post apocalypse version. I finally decided to vote with my heart: WotC should produce a single update book for Forgotten Realms that updates the stats for the 3.5e publications to 4e. Then they should cease producing anything for FR, and start a new points-of-light campaign setting that I might like.

(I know this a bit like threadcrapping, but the poll questions didn't limit it to people who liked the realms.)

 

[Samuel Leming]

I think they'll look like rock stars if this "reboot", or transformation or whatever succeeds. But the problem is, they're risking losing 3 fans for every one they gain.

I don’t think there are that many current fans…

The whole reason for this poll was to get some idea of what the numbers are like. With the RPGA’s Living FR and the big 4e marketing push they’ll be ahead for at least the first main 4e FR setting book. If they publish good quality, they’ll stay ahead. If they publish crap… Well, that’s the risk of doing something like this.

They're gambling that fans will complain, and threaten to leave, but then be so enthused what is done, once the setting is released, that they change their minds and stick with it.

And they're probably also gambling on some fans complaining, but being so addicted/socialized into buying the books that they continue to do so, out of habit, and end up liking, or at least using some of the stuff.

Gambling? I don’t think so. From this poll, it looks like more people are interested in getting into the Realms if it’s cleaned up than are currently into it now. WotC can write the hardcore fan off completely and still have a win.

I don’t think it’s personal. They’re just not enough of you guys to make it worthwhile to print and sell those big glossy books full of art. What can WotC do? Cancel the FR line or find a way to increase sales.

What? You’d prefer they cancel it? Well, that’s some fan entitlement for you right there. :\

I think WotC has correctly identified that new fans are skipping getting into the Realms due to a high barrier of entry. Good for them. Hope they make a mint.

Reading these other posts, it looks like you guys still want new 'Third Age'(or whatever you guys call it) Realms material in addition to a general rules update. Is that your goal? If it is, then it’s hardly an intractable problem. Actually it’s one of those tedious problems that can be solved by simply throwing some money at it. We already know that WotC wants your money.

Here’s what I suggest you do. Find somebody over at Candlekeep that knows Mr. Greenwood personally. Suggest that WotC produce more 'Realms of times past' content for their online initiative where they don’t have to worry about all that expensive art and printing. Surely Mr. Greenwood would know who to talk to at WotC to set the wheels in motion. Sign petitions and lobby for it if that will help. They’re probably looking for good ideas for content for Dragon and Dungeon anyway.

Sam

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Rich's Realms writing; they just aren't (thus far) the worldbuilders Ed is.

Rich isn't writing on the 4e Realms book.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Why is this a good thing for the Realms? Well, first and foremost it accomplishes the goal of explaining 4th edition

Which can be done without chaning the whole Realms. 3e did it, and it worked quite well.

It also manages to make the world less complicated for those of us who didn't know everything from every novel and realms book and yet have to deal with people who HAVE.

Again: If they don't want to have a world as detailed as the FR, they should just stay out of the FR. The publishers should not ruin the world for the fans just to get some newbloods in.

It likely gets rid of most of the "little known but powerful character" syndrome that happens currently.

Should every 10+ level character be well known? In a world that has like 66,000,000 inhabitants, 65,999,980 should be 1st level commoners and the rest known to everyone? Nah.

It also adds more ruins, dangerous places, and unknowns to the campaign. Great for adventuring in.

It's not as if the Realms didn't have those. You don't have to kill off most of the civilisation in order to make adventuring possible.

I'd love to run a campaign where part of it was exploring the ruins of the now destroyed Neverwinter where some foul creatures might make it their home now.

I'd prever to have a campaign where Neverwinter still stands and where I explore the ruins of some other destroyed city. They don't have to generate 10d% ruins to make the Realms work.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don’t think there are that many current fans…

They keep publishing all those novels and no one buys them?

WotC can write the hardcore fan off completely and still have a win.

I hope they considered that some, or even many, of those hardcore fans will not only walk away from the Realms, but from Wizards alltogether.

What? You’d prefer they cancel it?

Yes, I would. I preferred them to be honest and say: We don't thinkt he Realms work for us, not enough fans, bye.

Then they can start a new campaign setting that is all about points of light and 4e rules changes - like they do right now, except that they're calling it Forgotten Realms.

Plus, they could just stop making the FR books themselves, and giving someone else the License to do so. Someone who wants to keep the old Realms and doesn't mind that they won't outsell WoW or something.

Reading these other posts, it looks like you guys still want new 'Third Age'(or whatever you guys call it) Realms material in addition to a general rules update. Is that your goal?

We want to Realms to basically stay as they are. That means that changes can occur, but not to the point that you don't recognise the game world any more.

But I doubt that they would want to "dilute their fanbase by supporting two Forgotten Realms".

 

[XCorvis]

Do I think rebooting the Realms would be a good idea? Yes.

I don't play in the Realms, and I would never consider it in the current edition. The main reason is that the realms are simply too big, too complex, too well documented. There's too much stuff in it. I can't deal with it all. I need big blank areas on the map, rough outlines of cities and countries, vague rumors. I can't even begin to imagine how I'd put stuff into it. I'd have to rewrite so much canon that it's just not worth the bother, or wedge it in at the corners where nothing interesting is happening.

If they were to reboot and fast forward 100 years, that'd be fine. I might actually consider buying FR again if enough of the current setting is relegated to history rather than current events. (Yes, obviously I could do this in my own game, but that's a lot of work I'd rather have someone else do.)

 

[Kelek72]

I like the idea. Players sticking to 3E can have 100 years and still be in-line with new game product if they switch later on!