D&D 5E Do You Tinker with Adventures to Make Them "Winnable"?

[Dessert Nomad]

It's interesting how many people want to model their TTRPG games after CRPGs. The idea that a "sandbox" game is a bunch of adventure leads that just sit around until the players pursue them, and that "leave the area and do some side quests" is not only possible but something that the PCs would think of doing is just not something I would do unless the campaign was parodying CRPGs.

 

[Reynard]

It's interesting how many people want to model their TTRPG games after CRPGs. The idea that a "sandbox" game is a bunch of adventure leads that just sit around until the players pursue them, and that "leave the area and do some side quests" is not only possible but something that the PCs would think of doing is just not something I would do unless the campaign was parodying CRPGs.

Where do you think CRPGs got the idea?

 

[Nefermandias]

I don't think all encounters need to be winnable. That said, I do tinker as well, because if they are key gatekeepers to the next chapter, making them de facto unwinnable (requiring the PCs to have a specific class/spell set up) is not good. It shuts down the entire adventure.

TSR D&D gets a lot of flack for having unwinnable scenarios in it, but in nearly every case, there's always a way to overcome the challenge within the adventure design itself. It may not be easy to find, but there are almost always ways to get past or overcome challenges that PCs can find.

Hell no. If anything, I would tinker with official modules to make them harder. We are living in the an age where D&D is seen mainly as a platform to tell stories rather than an actual game, and that mindset makes me really frustrated. Heck no. Let me murder my players in peace. They deserve the full right to fail sometimes.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Hell no. If anything, I would tinker with official modules to make them harder. We are living in the an age where D&D is seen mainly as a platform to tell stories rather than an actual game, and that mindset makes me really frustrated. Heck no. Let me murder my players in peace. They deserve the full right to fail sometimes.

You probably have lines of players waiting to join your game to get murdered...(I hope you meant characters, but even then...not much better lol)

 

[Nefermandias]

You probably have lines of players waiting to join your game to get murdered...(I hope you meant characters, but even then...not much better lol)

Yeah, characters, right....
Slowly moves away whistling...

Seriously though, my players keep complaining how easy I go on them. Guess they're a bunch of masochists.

 

[Reynard]

Hell no. If anything, I would tinker with official modules to make them harder. We are living in the an age where D&D is seen mainly as a platform to tell stories rather than an actual game, and that mindset makes me really frustrated. Heck no. Let me murder my players in peace. They deserve the full right to fail sometimes.

I think there has always been a tension between the "game" and "story" aspects of D&D, all the way back to the first time someone actually named his fighting man something other than Bob The Third. It's usually a healthy tension, I think, and what has made RPGs an enduring form.

 

[Nefermandias]

I think there has always been a tension between the "game" and "story" aspects of D&D, all the way back to the first time someone actually named his fighting man something other than Bob The Third. It's usually a healthy tension, I think, and what has made RPGs an enduring form.

My take on this is that it doesn't really need to be any tension, because story and game doesn't necessarily have to be on opposite sides.

My idea is that if your DMing is fair and your rulings are consistent, you don't have to worry with crafting an "awesome story" at all. You can bet that a good story is bound to emerge through natural gameplay.

What I really hate is when players and DMs treat the game as some kind of show, like they are under some kind of pressure to entertain an audience. This usually results in players fighting for the spotlight or the DM railroading the game into whatever "perfect" plot he has envisioned.

 

[iserith]

My take on this is that it doesn't really need to be any tension, because story and game doesn't necessarily have to be on opposite sides.

My idea is that if your DMing is fair and your rulings are consistent, you don't have to worry with crafting an "awesome story" at all. You can bet that a good story is bound to emerge through natural gameplay.

What I really hate is when players and DMs treat the game as some kind of show, like they are under some kind of pressure to entertain an audience. This usually results in players fighting for the spotlight or the DM railroading the game into whatever "perfect" plot he has envisioned.

I largely agree. Play the game, story will emerge. Sometimes that story will not end well for the characters in that they die or fail to complete their objectives. I do, however, think players and DM should consider that they are the audience for their game, so they are well-advised to make choices that are, in context, fun for everyone and help contribute to an exciting, memorable story by playing. Fighting for the spotlight or the DM railroading therefore tends to be naturally curtailed (provided those things are not fun for everyone in that group).

 

[jasper]

Since this is the Berserker home base encounter. Two pcs died in my running. The others ran away and later go the bodies back. There was no parlaying after that with that berserker clan. Some times the PC die. As long as you don't lead them to exit to make them survive, it is okay to have deadly encounters.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

Where do you think CRPGs got the idea?

CRPG designers came up with it while working with a different medium, or mage took it from some fringe group of tabletop players. "Do some side quests to level up" is not a phrase I've ever seen published in older paper RPGs (including modules and including Dragon magazine for D&D). The whole concept of "side quest" vs "main quest" where a side quest is done for extra levels to make the main quest easier (and where the main quest and side quest just sit there waiting for you to find back to them) is distinctly not from TTRPGs.