D&D 5E Do You Tinker with Adventures to Make Them "Winnable"?

[Retreater]

So I'm running an official 5e campaign adventure, which shall remain unnamed so we don't get into spoiler territory. I'm primarily looking for general advice and the points of view of other GMs and players more than specific fixes to the adventure.

Here are a few recent situations:
1) Party needs to get into room to defeat evil caster who is terrorizing the local village. Caster is safely locked behind a door that (per the adventure) "cannot be damaged, forced open, or opened in any other way besides a knock spell (or a second spell that is fairly obscure)." All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.
2) Party enters the first room of the dungeon. There's a monster that is resistant to magic and immune to non-magical weapon attacks (and has a boat load of HP). Party doesn't have magic weapons, because none are placed in the adventure. All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.
3) Party fights their way through a dungeon to get to the BBEG. He cannot be reduced below 1 HP unless the party casts one of two spells in another room that they are too level to be able to cast. (The adventure specifically says that no other actions work.) All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.

There are more examples in this adventure, and it's certainly not the way I'd design my own games.

Would you tinker with the adventure to give them a fighting chance? Also, when following the milestone XP suggestions, they get nothing for incomplete missions. So they can't level up to be able to complete the other missions, stuck forever at 4th level.

 

[Yora]

In this case, this just sounds like really bad design.
If it is possible to get past an obstacle, it doesn't really matter what method the players use to get past it. The writer insisting that they have to use exactly the method he wants is bad adventure writing which should just be ignored.

Adventures don't need to be won by the players, but they need to be completable. There should be a way to win, but winning shouldn't be mandatory. But whether the players achieve a goal or fail at it, things have to continue after that in some way.

 

[hopeless]

Yes.
Ran a game where the Paladin was carrying the enchanted +1 weapon of his slain mentor, the shadow sorceror is wearing a cape designed to improve his chosen profession of Stage Magic Performer, the rogue has her own band of "Merry Men" basically a backing band of Bards to support her brother the sorceror with his performances.
The Cleric ended up with a Figurine of Wondrous Power left in his care when its former owner was apparently killed thwarting an attempt to shift the kingdom with its double in the Shadowfell.
First game they ran into a group of were rats first time running 5e I naturally thought they wouldn't be that different from any other game I ran and yes I messed up, but at least I had something to fall back on once I recognised my mistake.
Next time I'd probably just make them resistant instead, but it was enough of a knock that I started paying more attention to what I was running.
Ended up running a modified Against the Cult of the Reptile God and turned the main foe of that into something far more scary courtesy of Stargate!
To me even failing an adventure should merit an experience award as a way of showing they're learning something?

 

[iserith]

I would certainly telegraph situations like this ahead of time so that players who are paying attention have a chance to prepare themselves accordingly.

As for the milestone XP, them's the breaks. I don't typically use milestone XP though.

 

[Bitbrain]

Yes, I tailor my games to fit the play styles of my players. I also tinker with the adventures so there is no one single path to success.

 

[Retreater]

I would certainly telegraph situations like this ahead of time so that players who are paying attention have a chance to prepare themselves accordingly.

As for the milestone XP, them's the breaks. I don't typically use milestone XP though.

The constraints of the adventure make it very hard to telegraph information. Like all of the adventure locations are in the middle of nowhere, no one has been there before. For example, no one knew that an evil caster was behind the trouble in the village, let alone to know "you have to use a knock spell" to get into her safe room.
Sending visions or other psychic phenomena just seems too heavy-handed.

 

[Imaculata]

My players don't have to win, but the challenges I place before them must be fair, and more importantly, fun.

I would make lots of changes to an adventure this railroady. The first thing I would change, is that door. I may make it hard to get to the villain, but it would be through more reasonable obstacles. Bodyguards for example.

An invulnerable door is kind of lame, plus the players can just destroy the walls and ignore the door. And before you know it, you find yourself in a position where you have to lock the villain away in a room that is completely invulnerable.

Better to allow the players to assassinate the villain by attacking at the right moment. When he is attending a public place for example. Making the villain unkillable unless the players cast specific spells in a specific room, only makes it worse.

I think the goal of whoever wrote this adventure, is to force the players to do something, before they can kill the big bad. But I prefer making such a thing optional. Perhaps the villain has an object in a room of the dungeon that gives him power? Destroying it, will weaken the villain, who would otherwise be a lot stronger. But of course there would need to be clues that this is the case. As Iserith stated, there needs to be foreshadowing.

 

[iserith]

The constraints of the adventure make it very hard to telegraph information. Like all of the adventure locations are in the middle of nowhere, no one has been there before. For example, no one knew that an evil caster was behind the trouble in the village, let alone to know "you have to use a knock spell" to get into her safe room.
Sending visions or other psychic phenomena just seems too heavy-handed.

There's always a way. Also, what kind of supply of food and water does that wizard have in the secret room? Just starve her out.

 

[NotAYakk]

First, check if that actually ends the adventure. What happens if the PCs don't defeat the caster behind the door right now?

Maybe they lay siege. Maybe they go find help. Maybe they wait for the BBEG to leave and ambush them.

A monster that is resistant to magic and immune to non-magical weapon attacks can still be damaged by falling, for example (no monsters are immune to non-magical bludgeoning damage, just weapon attacks that are bludgeoning and non-magical). Or it could become less heroic fantasy and more horror fantasy, as an unkillable monster breaks out of the dungeon and terrorizes the local area. Such a creature could be trapped with enough effort and sacrifice.

But really, bad adventures are bad. Make the adventure not bad?

 

[the Jester]

Here are a few recent situations:
1) Party needs to get into room to defeat evil caster who is terrorizing the local village. Caster is safely locked behind a door that (per the adventure) "cannot be damaged, forced open, or opened in any other way besides a knock spell (or a second spell that is fairly obscure)." All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.
2) Party enters the first room of the dungeon. There's a monster that is resistant to magic and immune to non-magical weapon attacks (and has a boat load of HP). Party doesn't have magic weapons, because none are placed in the adventure. All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.
3) Party fights their way through a dungeon to get to the BBEG. He cannot be reduced below 1 HP unless the party casts one of two spells in another room that they are too level to be able to cast. (The adventure specifically says that no other actions work.) All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.

Would you tinker with the adventure to give them a fighting chance? Also, when following the milestone XP suggestions, they get nothing for incomplete missions. So they can't level up to be able to complete the other missions, stuck forever at 4th level.

This sounds like bad design in some cases, interesting challenges in others.

1. Why can't the door be damaged in some other way? Is there a justification for this? On the surface, this one sounds like bad design.

2. This sounds like an interesting challenge to me. I'm all for monsters that require thought to overcome. Back in the 2e days, I ran an adventure whose first encounter was with gargoyles (who you needed a +1 weapon to hit in those days) against a group with no magic weapons. The pcs won by fighting smart, using spells, oil, etc instead of conventional weapons. And in 5e, there are tons of low-level options, like the magic weapon spell, that help pcs get around this kind of issue. Retreat and figure it out. Come back another day. Try again later.

3. Again, I would need more context, but having a bad guy require a special "key" of some kind to defeat is, again, a cool challenge. Retreat and figure it out. Come back another day. Try again later.

In general, with situations like you describe, no, I wouldn't tinker. But I also don't use milestone xp, and this is a great example of why. I don't artificially constrain the way the pcs in my game can advance. I'm much more of a sandbox dm.