Do you use Hero Points/Bennies/Re-Rolls?
- Thread starter Dave G
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BillyBeanbag said:
But what about a D&D City game?
Maybe for a Rogue-based game a la Fafhrd & Mouser - BTW they used Luck points in the original TSR Conan modules, I haven't played them but it seems reasonable for Hyborea; and even moreso for a Lankhmar game. A balanced party in regular D&D with its clerics and wizards is so powerful anyway that IMO luck points would be over-egging the pudding. In a game where the PCs are weak, like Warhammer FRP, it can be a useful device to keep them alive. And WEG Star Wars' Force Points worked pretty well, mostly.
Gothmog
First Post
Nope, although I tried them for a while, both as a player and DM, and I didn't like them. They are more suited to a heroic/cinematic type game, and don't mesh well with the gritty games I like to run. Thats not to say they don't have their place (they work wonderfully in Deadlands- a game I LOVE), but they need to be in cheesy, clear cut good vs evil types of games. Also, as another poster pointed out, they are highly subjective. What constitutes gaining another Hero Point? If it is to simply impress or entertain the DM- well, I think you can already see how that system would have its own set of faults.
Have you considered offering it as a houserule freebie for all PCs in your campaign instead of making it a somewhat unbalanced feat? The idea of a feat unbalanced enough to be too good not to take sort of defeats the whole point of feats, IMO, and if it's good for the health of the campaign for them to have it, why not?
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rounser said:
I was already making enough changes to the rules for my campaign, that I didn't want to introduce something completely new like hero points. Using the feat mechanic, and emulating the Luck domain ability, allowed me to sneak it in while still keeping it looking like same ol' D&D. As for balance issues, if everyone has it, then balance is no longer an issue, nu?
Besides which, it's possible to get rerolls without a feat, if you use magic items. There's one in Magic of Faerun, I think.
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cptg1481
First Post
Here's Mine
While I am certain that my rules for hero points (to follow) will be deemed by some to be too liberal....I post them anyway.
In my game this set of rules has worked out fine...I'd say in total I've given (including the 1 per player point to start) a total of 8 hero points and my players are at 10th level.
They have used them mostly in serious situations like failed save or die rolls, etc to keep the character alive. (I wanted them to have them because for now in game resurection is not possible, later it will be but after a plot point is resolved.
So for the wolves to feast upon my HERO POINT plan and rules:
Hero Points
GENERAL: Hero points are a way for us to represent the unique spark of drive, ambition, and focus within all heroes. It is the ability we all have to react to grave threats, situations and dire circumstances with the abilities that are hidden within us. In our real world it is those instances like when a Mom can lift the car off of her child in an accident or a guy who can walk 30 miles in a blizzard, get help and navigate (totally untrained) with the help back to his trapped family.
HERO POINT POOL: In our game, your pool of Hero Points will represent this. Each player will begin the game with 1 point. Throughout the game more points will be awarded. A character may have no more than half his level in hero points at any one time those gained beyond this point are lost. However, only three points may be spent in one encounter. An encounter is a meeting between the PC’s and one or more NPC’s or monsters (or each other, charmed, compelled etc.). Multiple encounters with the same NPC’s are treated separately.
INDIVIDUAL AWARDS: When a hero point is earned and awarded to an individual by me the player simply adds it to his pool immediately.
GROUP AWARDS: In a circumstance (the successful completion of quests, acts or deeds as a group) that results in the award of one point to the group, you will decide who gets the point by secret ballot. This will be done at the end of a session.
RECOMMENDATIONS: Please feel free to recommend the actions of others, both in and out of character for hero point award consideration.
IN GAME: What will get you a hero point in game? An individual act of heroism or sacrifice by your character (note; foolishly rushing a monster or being reckless does not stand alone as a heroic act) might get you one. Using the rules in a really cool and unique way to make an act more spectacular in any kind of encounter (combat or social) might get you one. A particularly moving, witty, or emotional round of roll playing in character might get you one. The possibilities are as infinite as the situations the characters might find themselves in. I will make one group award for the successful completion of selected quests, dungeon crawls, battles, episodes, and or story elements.
META-GAME: Meta-game standards are more objective. I may have special projects or homework (creative, artistic and mundane) that will serve to help enhance our game and make it more enjoyable. I will always award Experience points for any projects you volunteer to complete based upon their complexity. If you have provided something exceptional or especially creative, I might award a hero point. Understand that this stuff is not required and I will take care to not penalize folks for lacking the funds, time or talent to make terrain, miniatures, write creatively etc. If you have neither the time nor inclination to contribute projects then I might award experience or in the extreme a hero point for bringing an especially cool snack, drinks or something else that enhances the game or our atmosphere. Please understand that in no way do I want you to “buy” your way into hero points or having a more powerful character. Also I do not want you to feel bad for not doing these things…some people have real lives and little more than the few hours at the table to enjoy our hobby. I want you to enjoy the game and the stuff you choose to do, please don’t feel obligated, the only obligation I want from you is to have fun, come more than you don’t and enjoy the group and our collective story.
The single objective standard for the immediate award of one hero point is for you to say something so witty or funny that I laugh so hard that whatever I’m drinking comes out my nose.
HERO POINT VALUE: A hero point is a powerful asset to be used when the character is in a situation where the character absolutely must succeed. In game is represents the character, realizing that the consequences of potential failure would be so grave that it sparks or inspires them to reach deep inside for the resolve to make sure that he does not fail or that he achieves a genuinely spectacular result. One point may be used before an action to ensure an automatic success, when spent any variable die result that the hero point can be applied to is considered to be the best possible result.
SPECIFIC INSTANCES: Below are some are some of the possible instances in which a player can spend hero points. This list is not limiting in any way, it represents only some of the possibilities.
To hit - auto 20 (critical threat): Unless another point is spent the threat is rolled normally.
To confirm a critical threat – auto 20: Unless another point is spent threat of instant kill is rolled normally.
To confirm an instant kill – auto 20: If you’ll note that since three successive hero points can be in one encounter a character can get an “instant kill” when they dig down deep. I have no problem with this the bad guys will be tough enough to balance this point.
To achieve the highest outcome of one damage roll. All surprise dice, and any extra dice used to achieve damage even critical are treated as if they came up maximized.
To make a save – auto 20:
To make any skill check – auto 20:
EXCEPTION: In all instances the point must be spent before dice are rolled. It is not a luck situation where you try once and if you fail you spend the point to get an auto success. However, if you are entitled to a luck re-roll (with a PrC, domain choice etc.) then you may spend a hero point to achieve the best possible result on the second outcome. In this case the point is buying only one die roll.
COSTS: Spending a hero point is not something to be done lightly it is extremely taxing on the character mentally, physically, and emotionally.
Spending 1 hero point in a day results in the character being fatigued (DMG p84) until he gets a nights rest.
Spending 2 hero points in a day results in a character being Exhausted (DMGp84) until he gets a full 20 hours of complete rest. After a day of complete rest the character will be fatigued until he has a further day of day of light activity with another full nights rest.
Spending 3 hero points in a day results in a character being Exhausted (DMGp84) until he gets two full days of complete rest. After a those two full days of complete rest the character will be fatigued until he has a further day of day of light activity with another full nights rest.
The examples look more organized and coheareant in the table format...but I don't know how to insert a table into this forum.
While I am certain that my rules for hero points (to follow) will be deemed by some to be too liberal....I post them anyway.
In my game this set of rules has worked out fine...I'd say in total I've given (including the 1 per player point to start) a total of 8 hero points and my players are at 10th level.
They have used them mostly in serious situations like failed save or die rolls, etc to keep the character alive. (I wanted them to have them because for now in game resurection is not possible, later it will be but after a plot point is resolved.
So for the wolves to feast upon my HERO POINT plan and rules:
Hero Points
GENERAL: Hero points are a way for us to represent the unique spark of drive, ambition, and focus within all heroes. It is the ability we all have to react to grave threats, situations and dire circumstances with the abilities that are hidden within us. In our real world it is those instances like when a Mom can lift the car off of her child in an accident or a guy who can walk 30 miles in a blizzard, get help and navigate (totally untrained) with the help back to his trapped family.
HERO POINT POOL: In our game, your pool of Hero Points will represent this. Each player will begin the game with 1 point. Throughout the game more points will be awarded. A character may have no more than half his level in hero points at any one time those gained beyond this point are lost. However, only three points may be spent in one encounter. An encounter is a meeting between the PC’s and one or more NPC’s or monsters (or each other, charmed, compelled etc.). Multiple encounters with the same NPC’s are treated separately.
INDIVIDUAL AWARDS: When a hero point is earned and awarded to an individual by me the player simply adds it to his pool immediately.
GROUP AWARDS: In a circumstance (the successful completion of quests, acts or deeds as a group) that results in the award of one point to the group, you will decide who gets the point by secret ballot. This will be done at the end of a session.
RECOMMENDATIONS: Please feel free to recommend the actions of others, both in and out of character for hero point award consideration.
IN GAME: What will get you a hero point in game? An individual act of heroism or sacrifice by your character (note; foolishly rushing a monster or being reckless does not stand alone as a heroic act) might get you one. Using the rules in a really cool and unique way to make an act more spectacular in any kind of encounter (combat or social) might get you one. A particularly moving, witty, or emotional round of roll playing in character might get you one. The possibilities are as infinite as the situations the characters might find themselves in. I will make one group award for the successful completion of selected quests, dungeon crawls, battles, episodes, and or story elements.
META-GAME: Meta-game standards are more objective. I may have special projects or homework (creative, artistic and mundane) that will serve to help enhance our game and make it more enjoyable. I will always award Experience points for any projects you volunteer to complete based upon their complexity. If you have provided something exceptional or especially creative, I might award a hero point. Understand that this stuff is not required and I will take care to not penalize folks for lacking the funds, time or talent to make terrain, miniatures, write creatively etc. If you have neither the time nor inclination to contribute projects then I might award experience or in the extreme a hero point for bringing an especially cool snack, drinks or something else that enhances the game or our atmosphere. Please understand that in no way do I want you to “buy” your way into hero points or having a more powerful character. Also I do not want you to feel bad for not doing these things…some people have real lives and little more than the few hours at the table to enjoy our hobby. I want you to enjoy the game and the stuff you choose to do, please don’t feel obligated, the only obligation I want from you is to have fun, come more than you don’t and enjoy the group and our collective story.
The single objective standard for the immediate award of one hero point is for you to say something so witty or funny that I laugh so hard that whatever I’m drinking comes out my nose.
HERO POINT VALUE: A hero point is a powerful asset to be used when the character is in a situation where the character absolutely must succeed. In game is represents the character, realizing that the consequences of potential failure would be so grave that it sparks or inspires them to reach deep inside for the resolve to make sure that he does not fail or that he achieves a genuinely spectacular result. One point may be used before an action to ensure an automatic success, when spent any variable die result that the hero point can be applied to is considered to be the best possible result.
SPECIFIC INSTANCES: Below are some are some of the possible instances in which a player can spend hero points. This list is not limiting in any way, it represents only some of the possibilities.
To hit - auto 20 (critical threat): Unless another point is spent the threat is rolled normally.
To confirm a critical threat – auto 20: Unless another point is spent threat of instant kill is rolled normally.
To confirm an instant kill – auto 20: If you’ll note that since three successive hero points can be in one encounter a character can get an “instant kill” when they dig down deep. I have no problem with this the bad guys will be tough enough to balance this point.
To achieve the highest outcome of one damage roll. All surprise dice, and any extra dice used to achieve damage even critical are treated as if they came up maximized.
To make a save – auto 20:
To make any skill check – auto 20:
EXCEPTION: In all instances the point must be spent before dice are rolled. It is not a luck situation where you try once and if you fail you spend the point to get an auto success. However, if you are entitled to a luck re-roll (with a PrC, domain choice etc.) then you may spend a hero point to achieve the best possible result on the second outcome. In this case the point is buying only one die roll.
COSTS: Spending a hero point is not something to be done lightly it is extremely taxing on the character mentally, physically, and emotionally.
Spending 1 hero point in a day results in the character being fatigued (DMG p84) until he gets a nights rest.
Spending 2 hero points in a day results in a character being Exhausted (DMGp84) until he gets a full 20 hours of complete rest. After a day of complete rest the character will be fatigued until he has a further day of day of light activity with another full nights rest.
Spending 3 hero points in a day results in a character being Exhausted (DMGp84) until he gets two full days of complete rest. After a those two full days of complete rest the character will be fatigued until he has a further day of day of light activity with another full nights rest.
The examples look more organized and coheareant in the table format...but I don't know how to insert a table into this forum.
That's pretty warped logic, hong - do you really think that?
One of the design principles for feats is that choosing between them should be a tough decision. If taking a particular feat is a no-brainer (especially for any class or character type, as in this case), said feat probably needs to be toned down. The feat system becomes weakened by each feat of this type which you introduce into the game.
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