Do you use PC races as monsters?

[Retreater]

Every edition's monster manual as far as I can tell has entries for dwarves, halflings, elves, etc., that have a similar listing as monsters. These usually include tactics for attacking the party, etc.

Does anyone ever use these? Do you ever use a warparty of neutral elves attacking the party as unprovoked as a clan of gnolls or a pack of wolves?

I think that my group would have major issues if I started using PC races as monsters. A specific named NPC as a villain, sure. Maybe even members of an evil cult. But just "these are generic dwarves attacking your group" - I don't see that flying.

If my view is typical, then why do game designers keep adding PC races as monsters? Beyond "this is what a typical warrior of this race looks like for comparison purposes" what good does it do to stat up a bunch of things that most players will never fight?

Ditto for good-aligned dragons, angels, etc.

Retreater

 

[Ed_Laprade]

Every edition's monster manual as far as I can tell has entries for dwarves, halflings, elves, etc., that have a similar listing as monsters. These usually include tactics for attacking the party, etc.

Does anyone ever use these? Do you ever use a warparty of neutral elves attacking the party as unprovoked as a clan of gnolls or a pack of wolves?

I think that my group would have major issues if I started using PC races as monsters. A specific named NPC as a villain, sure. Maybe even members of an evil cult. But just "these are generic dwarves attacking your group" - I don't see that flying.

If my view is typical, then why do game designers keep adding PC races as monsters? Beyond "this is what a typical warrior of this race looks like for comparison purposes" what good does it do to stat up a bunch of things that most players will never fight?

Ditto for good-aligned dragons, angels, etc.

Retreater

They're useful as brigands, pirates, etc. (Or ninja pirates, or...)

 

[Crothian]

Everything that attacks the PCs do it for a reason. It might be an unprovoked attack something like defenisve expansion as I think the Roman's used to say. An evil cult would have a reason, a group of bandits would have a reason. In my games even the moneters have a reason to attack the PCs though the PCs won't always know that. Same with a group of elves. They might ambush and attack the PCs and the PCs should think it odd but never know whuy. I've had good aligned creatures attack the PCs to. I always know why these things happen even if the players never do.

 

[howandwhy99]

Monster = every character in the game that isn't your character. (that includes your fellow players' PCs)

So yeah, they can be viewed as monsters and fought.

 

[Herobizkit]

All the time. Many character-driven games have an often "shades of grey" mentality. In short, this means that Good and Evil are parts of one another instead of absolutes, and alignments tend to be at least partially neutral.

In such games, races that are normally perceived to be Good can be any alignment with any motivation.

A settlement of Dwarves can compete with the local humans for mining rights; while the humans are busy, they could be secretly fortifying to claim an ancient Dwarven stronghold before the humans find it.

The Elves are normally quite aloof, but have been seen strolling about the Halfling villages as of late. The Halflings prefer to be left alone, but tolerate the Elves because they keep the marauding Orcs at bay. The Elves believe the Halflings have something the Orcs want, and want whatever it is for themselves.

A village of half-elves vows vengeance on both the Humans and the Elves for a perceived mistreatment that may or may not be true. They strike a deal with the gnomes to 'run interference' on one side so that the half-elves may strike at the other.

A Silver Dragon living among an Elven community learns that the neighboring Dwarves are trying to push the Elves further from their borders. The Dwarves have heard that a Dragon walks among the Elves and are trying to entice it to show itself so that they may hunt for its hoard.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Every edition's monster manual as far as I can tell has entries for dwarves, halflings, elves, etc., that have a similar listing as monsters. These usually include tactics for attacking the party, etc.

Does anyone ever use these? Do you ever use a warparty of neutral elves attacking the party as unprovoked as a clan of gnolls or a pack of wolves?

I think that my group would have major issues if I started using PC races as monsters. A specific named NPC as a villain, sure. Maybe even members of an evil cult. But just "these are generic dwarves attacking your group" - I don't see that flying.

If my view is typical, then why do game designers keep adding PC races as monsters? Beyond "this is what a typical warrior of this race looks like for comparison purposes" what good does it do to stat up a bunch of things that most players will never fight?

Ditto for good-aligned dragons, angels, etc.

Retreater

Most of the big bad evil guys (and women) in my last campaign were human (or formerly human), or else a "PC" race. With a few exceptions.

1) Final encounter was the high priest of the evil theocracy (human), as well as a horde of his mostly human allies. Sure, he had a pit fiend bodyguard, who then summoned some ice devils...but, the evil high priest was the main baddie. (He gated in a fiendish beholder, which was fun)
2) The penultimate encounter was with the #2 in the religion, an aged human female cleric, plus her halfling psion servant and a rakshasa sorcerer... as well as her ogri magi bodyguards. I believe the priestess gated in a pyroclastic dragon as well.
3) The encounter before that was with a war party of drow raiders, which included both a long-time nemesis of the party, and also the #4 priestess of the same evil religion. (the nemesis had survived 4 previous encounters with the party, slaying a PC each time)

The two encounters before that were mostly with human bad guys as well.

Before that, things were more of a mix - but, I almost always find that humans (or elves, dwarves, halflings and other PC races) work best as baddies.

 

[Jhaelen]

Everything that attacks the PCs do it for a reason.

This!

I believe in using a wide array of different encounters. But while beasts and 'monsters' have their place, it's encounters with intelligent foes that are usually the most fun because they can have complex motives.

Also, encounters in a somewhat civilized environment should mostly consist of members of the PC races.

Regarding metallic dragons: I guess you haven't read Draconomicon 2?
In 4e metallic dragons are quite far from the do-gooders of previous editions. First and foremost they're dragons and that shows in their behaviour:
They're arrogant, self-centered and don't think much of lesser beings (i.e. non-dragons). Even if they're good-aligned (and most aren't!), they'll be domineering and expect to be treated with utmost respect, otherwise their draconic temper will take over.

Regarding angels: Never forget that angels serve every deity! So, there are angels of Asmodeus, Bane, Gruumsh, Lolth, Tharizdun, Tiamat, Torog, Vecna, and Zehir. I particularly like giving them thematically fitting extra powers and playing up their description. I've always liked the old-testament types of no-nonsense angels. There's a reason they usually tell people 'fear not!' before anything else!

Even angels of neutral or good deities can be fitting opponents since several of them have conflicting portfolios, e.g. Erathis (Civilization) vs. Melora (Wilderness), Sehanine (Trickery) vs. Bahamut (Honor), Corellon (Arts) vs. Kord (Battle), Pelor (Summer) vs. Raven Queen (Winter), etc.

If the heroes are helping to advance the cause of one deity, they're almost automatically doing something that is detrimental to another deity's cause.

 

[Rhun]

Does anyone ever use these? Do you ever use a warparty of neutral elves attacking the party as unprovoked as a clan of gnolls or a pack of wolves?

I'm not sure that my PCs have ever been attacked by "unprovoked" gnolls. The difference between the gnolls and the elves is simply that they are provoked by different things. Merely trespassing into their territory could cause the gnolls to attack, while perhaps it take something more than that before elves would attack a group of PCs.

I guess my point is that nothing in my games attack the PCs without a reason of some sort, even if it is simply because the PCs look tasty.

At any rate, I have indeed used elves, dwarves, good dragon, angels, etc against various PCs at different times.

 

[Asmor]

If my view is typical

It's not.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, they're what I use for bandits or enemy troops during wartime. My players would find it odd if certain races were never hostile.