Do your players know the rules?

[xnosipjpqmhd]

This is a poll for DMs about how knowledgeable your players are in the rules (specifically combat rules) and whether this makes a difference to you.

My group has always been a story/character driven group. They really have no interest in learning the ins and outs of the rules (specifically combat). This was ok, until I started moving toward 3.5e-style rules, which seem to be a thousand times more tactically oriented than most RPGs.

So I could help the players understand their options, but this can lead to frustration or a question of fairness. Quick example:
Player: "I'm going to run past the goblin and escape."
DM: "Well, you could try bullrushing him out of the way then take a move action, but that'll provoke an attack of opportunity."
Player: "Uh, whatever. Just tell me what to roll." (rolls and fails)
DM: "Oh, I see you have Improved Trip. You probably could have tripped him and then moved away."
Player: "You didn't tell me that!"
Or whatever.

Or I could try simplifying the combat system and taking a rules-lite approach, but this makes a lot of feats and class abilities moot (or at least lowers their value).

So anyway, I'm trying to get a read on the situations other DMs find themselves in, and whether they have any related advice. Thanks.

ironregime

 

[Gold Roger]

Other:
Two players know the rules really well.
One player knows the rules decently.
One player doesn't bother with the rules and it annoys the heck out of me.

 

[Beckett]

I have a range of rules knowledges in my group. I tend to be the primary DM, and know the rules the best out of my group. I'm also the one most likely to be hanging out on the rules board here, or checking errata and the FAQ.

Below me, I have some experienced players who know almost as much as me, and are able to correct me from time to time. If we're unsure on a rule, one of these is probably diving into the book to check. 9 time out of 10, this is a good thing, but it can lead to short arguments if one of us remembers or interprets a rule differently.

I've got a few newbie players, who are still learning. They've got the basics, and are swiftly learning the important stuff for their characters. They know which dice to role, but might need a reminder of this or that modifier. There might be some uncertainty in what they do, but they're gaining confidence. I'm fine with these players; I don't expect everyone to know every rule, as long as they know most of what their character can do.

And then, I have experienced players who don't seem to learn the rules. Or rather, don't seem to learn the rules that pertain to their characters. These are the ones rechecking what an ability does. Or blatently misinterpret the rules over and over. And whenever they use a spell or a power, I'm checking it because they likely have "forgotten" the last line of the description which keeps them from doing what they were just going to do.

My ideal would be for each player to learn what his or her character can do, and how to do that. The big stuff for a character, I mean: a rogue should know how sneak attack works and what he can with his skills, a wizards should know about casting on the defense and what her spells can do. They should also have a general idea of combat options, such as grapple and trip; the specifics can be looked up quickly if the player thinks a trip will accomplish what he needs to do. Anything beyond that is gravy.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Other:

Four players are pretty much experts, one knows the rules for his characters but no more and the last has trouble with d20+7. Collectively they probably know more than I do but I've got a better grasp of the system as a whole.

So I'd have voted: "They know a lot of the rules and I'm fine with that."

 

[Shade]

Other: My players know the rules about as well as I do, and that’s fine with me.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Other:
I have three players who know the rules very well, one player who's learning the rules and is going well and another player who thinks he knows the rules but has only a slippery grasp of them. Whenever he DMs, we call the ruleset 3.Dave: a strange amalgum of 2nd ed., 3rd ed. 3,5 ed. and whatever happens to be going on in his head at the time.

Ironregime, from your description, 3.5 does not seem to be the ideal ruleset for your group. I also have a character driven/roleplay heavy group, but this does not preclude them from the rules of combat. They roleplay really well but they still enjoy the finer points of 3.5ed combat at the same time. For you though, it sounds like your group has little to no interest in this part of the game. From your example, it seems like you are almost having to play their characters for them which is obviously not good and would get incredibly frustrating. Maybe one game session you could go through the rules of combat with them and try to get them a little bit more interested in it. Alternatively, if that does not seem feasible, perhaps just swapping to one of the non-complicated rules-lite systems would be the best option for your group. Best of luck.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Drowbane]

#2

I just started DMing for my niece (3rd generation D&D geek? ), who is a total noob to D&D. So she knows (and so far cares) nothing of the rules and just rolls what I tell her to after she tells me what she wants her character to do.

Its damn refreshing!

 

[Dragonbait]

Many of my players know a lot about the rules, but, like me, their numbers may be off some (DC 15 vs. 20 and so on). The problem is, is that some will try to stop the game to debate numbers and such.

 

[ThirdWizard]

They're fairly knowledgable about the basics and some of the more specialized concepts, but often enough they won't know something that would make their lives so much easier (recently like the fact that you can cast a cure spell, move, and then touch in one round). It would be nice if they knew more.

 

[Sigdel]

While I do not DM the group I am currently in. there is this one guy who refuses to update his material for his wizard to 3.5. He just continues to run him 3.0 in a 3.5 game. He is constantly saying "They must have changed that in 3.5" But that's not the worst problem with this guy. The worst problem is that he uses E-Tools to generate ALL of his character info. E-Tools is so bug ridden its not even funny. Fore example, on Sunday he used the spell Flameburst when a baddie got too close. He said he's casting the spell then grabbed 9d8 for damage. When we asked what level the spell was he said 2nd. 9d8 for a 2nd lvl spell? Well, it turns out Flameburst is from Complete Arcane and has a limit of 5d8. E-Tools just listed the spell in brief without mentioning the limit. This is a constant problem.