Dodge and Mobility alternatives

[Ridley's Cohort]

I will not agree with the idea of replacing Dodge and Mobility because the feats are weak -- they are not. Taking a couple middling power feats as prereqs for the very powerful Spring Attack and Elusive Target is both fair and necessary.

However, I can support appealing to your DM for feats that may be more appropriate for your character concept.

 

[Mistwell]

I have a character I want to get Elusive Target, but dodge and mobility aren't the greatest of feats. I know there was recently a thread on dodge alternatives, so if anyone has a link to that, it would be much appreciated. Also, are there alternatives to mobility in the same vein of "you can take this and qualify for things that require mobility"? I don't know of any, but maybe someone else does?

-Nate

Actually, looking at the Elusive Target feat - you really can't replace dodge and mobility. Here is the text:

Elusive Target (from Complete Warrior ): The Elusive Target feat enables the use of three tactical maneuvers.

Negate Power Attack: To use this maneuver, you must designate a specific foe to be affected by your Dodge feat. If that foe uses the Power Attack feat against you, the foe gains no bonus on the damage roll but still takes the corresponding penalty on the attack roll.

Diverting Defense: To use this maneuver, you must be flanked and you must designate one of the flanking attackers to be affected by your Dodge feat. The first attack of the round from the designated attacker automatically misses you and may strike the other flanking foe instead; the attacking creature makes an attack roll normally, and its ally is considered flat-footed. If the designated attacker is making a full attack against you, its second and subsequent attacks function normally.

Cause Overreach: To use this maneuver, you must provoke an attack of opportunity from a foe by moving out of a threatened square. If the foe misses you, you can make a free trip attempt against this foe, and the foe does not get a chance to trip you if your attempt fails.

If you don't have dodge, then you don't have a dodge opponent designated for diverting defense (or the negate power attack for that matter). And if you don't have mobility, you get smacked much more often for cause overreach. So...why exactly are you trying to get rid of feats that mesh well and are just about essential (from a tactics perspective) for the feat you do want?

 

[The Souljourner]

Ok ok Mistwell, no fair using logic!

I guess my problem with dodge and mobility is that I don't really think of my full plate and shield guy as one of those "mobile fighters" that would take mobility-related feats. The problem is that there just aren't that many good defensive feats out there. Everyone wants the offense....

-Nate

 

[Squire James]

I'm strongly considering changing Dodge to the "+1 to dodge AC vs. everyone" option; it ain't Armor Skin because you can't take it more than once!

Mobility is fine, except it isn't used very often by a high Tumble character (who can generally move where they want because of those cheesy-low fixed DC's). That is not a strong enough reason to change the feat, though, especially since it offers a buffer against Tumble failure.

 

[blargney the second]

Don't forget: you can't Tumble in armor that reduces your speed.
-blarg

 

[The Souljourner]

Don't forget: you can't Tumble in armor that reduces your speed.
-blarg

Yeah, that too. I wasn't really going to be trying for tumble anyway. Cross class for crusaders and not in theme.

The high tumble thing also has its own drawbacks - it uses double movement (which I think a lot of people forget), and many DMs (all the DMs I play with) house rule it to be a check opposed by an opponent's attack roll, so it's not automatic.... and really DC 20 isn't automatic for a long time anyway.

-Nate

 

[hong]

Oh, you're a CRUSADER.

If so, then you want to get hit. You just don't want to take damage. Pick something that gives you DR.

 

[blargney the second]

Yeah, the Tumble thing was more for the benefit of the folks recommending it in place of Mobility.

Hong, how do you figure crusaders want to get hit but not take damage? I ask because I'm wondering if there's a class feature I missed or misunderstood somewhere.
-blarg

 

[The Souljourner]

Oh, you're a CRUSADER.

If so, then you want to get hit. You just don't want to take damage. Pick something that gives you DR.

That doesn't quite work. If you have DR you don't take as much damage and so don't get as much into your damage pool. Stone Power is about the only thing that works because it's temporary hitpoints.

Not that DR isn't terribly useful, it's just not comboriffic

As for wanting to get hit... I dunno about that. If I'm getting attacked and missed, I think that's still a good thing. Sure, I won't get damage pool benefits, but losing a few bonuses to hit and damage is worth it if no one on my side is taking damage.

-Nate

 

[hong]

Yeah, the Tumble thing was more for the benefit of the folks recommending it in place of Mobility.

Hong, how do you figure crusaders want to get hit but not take damage? I ask because I'm wondering if there's a class feature I missed or misunderstood somewhere.
-blarg

Oh, you want to get damaged, all right. However, chances are you'll have no problem filling your damage pool. The trick is to fill it up, but not have it overflow.