Does 4E do grappling differently?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I saw a comment recently -- I honestly can't remember whether on a message board or on a blog -- that 4E did grappling more easily than in previous editions, by dispensing with the simulation of how it ought to work and just went for a straight success/failure effect.

Is that accurate? Could anyone summarize how it works?

Because if there's a simpler grappling system out there, I'd like to steal it for my game.

 

[Hussar]

A Grab in 4e (AFAIK) is a basic melee attack and the target is grabbed (cannot move away from you). That's it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

A Grab in 4e (AFAIK) is a basic melee attack and the target is grabbed (cannot move away from you). That's it.

Nice and clean. I like it.

Thanks.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

A grab is an attack vs Fort, and uses neither weapon accuracy nor implement bonuses. (I think this means it's more accurate in an inherent bonus campaign.)

Just a simple attack vs Fort. The enemy can make an escape check (Acrobatics or Athletics) with a DC equal to your Fort defense as a move action. If they succerd, they escape and shift one square. Otherwise, they fail.

A grabbed opponent cannot move, but if they're forcibly moved or teleported, or you move or teleport, you lose hold of them.

You can pull your opponent with you at half speed, as a move action.

It's easy, but also not that useful an ability. The victim does not suffer any combat penalties other than being immobilized.

 

[Hussar]

OTOH, PSH, you can still attack if you have someone grabbed. If you're facing really, really mobile targets, it can be useful. But, yeah, by and large, it's not a huge thing.

 

[RangerWickett]

There's a grappler fighter who's got this lovely ability to chase after someone who moves away, and then tackle him. I made a thri-kreen fighter in Dark Sun who had that schtick; it was fun.

I believe you still can't grab something that's more than one size category larger than you.

But if I'm remembering correctly, you can:

Turn 1. Grab guy 1 as a standard action.
Turn 2. Sustain the first grab as a minor action, grab guy 2 as a standard action.
Turn 3. Sustain both grabs with two minor actions, then use some sort of attack. Yes, you need to use a hand to grab someone, but I don't think you need a free hand to cast a spell if you're using an implement that isn't held, right?

I want to play a burly burst-focused sorcerer who grabs people, then incinerates them. Perhaps not tactically ideal, but fun.

 

[Spatula]

Because if there's a simpler grappling system out there, I'd like to steal it for my game.

SW Saga and 4e both have simple grappling rules in reaction to the mess that is 3e.

In SW, IIRC, a grab attack is a melee touch attack, and if you succeed, the target can't move on their next turn. That's pretty much it. No escape or maintaining rules.

In 4e, a grab attack is a STR attack vs Reflex. If it hits, the target can't move until they escape. Escaping is a move action: Athletics vs the grabber's Fort or Acrobatics vs the grabber's Reflex. The grab can be maintained automatically, and you can try to drag the grabbed creature around.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In SW, IIRC, a grab attack is a melee touch attack, and if you succeed, the target can't move on their next turn. That's pretty much it. No escape or maintaining rules.

Not quite.

Being grabbed in SWSE makes it so that you cannot move, and you take a small penalty to attacks (-2, IIRC, and it may not apply to the character grabbing you; I'm AFB).

Additionally, you need to spend a standard action to break a grab; doing so is automatically successful (and frees you from a number of grabbers equal to your level).

There are feats and talents that let you change your basic grab into a grapple, which has rules similar to 3.5's.

 

[Storminator]

Grabbing is pretty straightforward, and without anything keying off it, isn't terribly impressive.

Some monsters, tho, have abilities that key off grabbing a target. The Bugbear Strangler, frex, can interpose his grabbed victim. The victim takes the damage from an attack against the Strangler. I've seen monsters that can use a grabbed PC like a club (that was fun!), and I've also seen PCs get dragged across some nasty terrain.

PS

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Some sort of troll can use PCs as a club. Which type is that? I know there was an article on it at WotC's site years ago.

The bhrog hurler (a four-armed giant-like artillery monster in Dark Sun) can grab PCs and then use them as ranged weapons. Among other things, this makes it dangerous for a PC to get near one (which is exactly what an artillery piece likes).

Many monsters have the equivalent of Improved Grab, with attack lines that look like this: Attack: +x vs AC (or Reflex). Hit: X dmg, and the target is grabbed (escape DC X). Since grab doesn't screw you over much, it's not nearly as nasty as being attacked by a were dire (polar) bear barbarian (I did that once in 3.x, and no one could escape).