D&D 4E Does 4E have disarm?

[Christian]

I'm not sure where people got the idea that being disarmed was a long-term thing. Frankly, one of the reasons why it's not a great tactic in the game is because it's just as easy to undo as it is to do. It's a good way for getting the McGuffin out of the villain's hands, or making the victim spend a round or two scrambling, but that's really about it.

Depends on circumstances, of course. My 3.5 bard pulled this off once:
Round 1: close to 40', blind an enemy with glitterdust
Round 2: close to 15' while drawing whip, disarm enemy, who spends the rest of the fight groping around on his hands and knees searching for his weapon

The psywar's player turned to me right after I won the disarm opposed roll and said, "That was the coolest thing I have ever seen a bard do." Then I started humming the Raiders of the Lost Ark theme song.

 

[DracoSuave]

In my game, powers not withstanding, disarming has very simple rules.

Step 1) Knock the opponent down to 0 hitpoints.
Step 2) Opponent is disarmed, and therefore defeated. He is subdued, as it is in swashbuckling movies.

Funny how elegantly this works.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Mouse,

I suggested those modifications in order to make disarming worse than an at-will, where it belongs, as an improvised action.
Like I've said in various threads before, DMs in home games are free to run games however they want.

If there is ever a cause for a player to call a head judge over in competitive play, the DM is made of fail.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

I have house rule for disarm:

Disarm
Standard action.
1. Your opponent makes an opportunity attack against you.
2. Make a Dex vs Reflex attack against your opponent. If you are using a weapon to disarm, add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll. If you are disarming a weapon, add your target's proficiency bonus to their Reflex defence. If you are using a flail and you are proficient in its use, add +2 to your attack roll.
3a. If you miss, there is no effect.
3b. If you hit, make a Str vs Fortitude attack. If you are using a 2 handed weapon, add +2 to your attack roll. If your opponent is using a 2 handed weapon, add +2 to their Fortitude defence.
4a. If you miss, and you are using a weapon, your weapon falls to the ground in your square. If you miss and you are not using a weapon, there is no effect.
4b. If you hit, and you are using a weapon, the thing you were attempting to disarm drops to the ground in your opponent's square. If you hit, and you are using your hands, you grab the thing you were attempting to disarm and have it in your hands.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to playtest this house rule yet.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Kordeth]

I have house rule for disarm:

Disarm
Standard action.
1. Your opponent makes an opportunity attack against you.
2. Make a Dex vs Reflex attack against your opponent. If you are using a weapon to disarm, add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll. If you are disarming a weapon, add your target's proficiency bonus to their Reflex defence. If you are using a flail and you are proficient in its use, add +2 to your attack roll.
3a. If you miss, there is no effect.
3b. If you hit, make a Str vs Fortitude attack. If you are using a 2 handed weapon, add +2 to your attack roll. If your opponent is using a 2 handed weapon, add +2 to their Fortitude defence.
4a. If you miss, and you are using a weapon, your weapon falls to the ground in your square. If you miss and you are not using a weapon, there is no effect.
4b. If you hit, and you are using a weapon, the thing you were attempting to disarm drops to the ground in your opponent's square. If you hit, and you are using your hands, you grab the thing you were attempting to disarm and have it in your hands.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to playtest this house rule yet.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

Dear god, it's like the return of grapple!

Seriously, though, that's about four steps more complicated than any attack in 4E should be. I'd really recommend slimming it down a lot.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

My general idea regarding trip and disarm without powers is:
1) It is either a once per encounter enviroment specific thing
2) It requires combat advantage.

The latter is not too hard to get, but if you're having combat advantage, the opportunity cost are higher, since you could also pull off a damaging encounter or daily power with a better chance to success (or just deal sneak attack damage).

This is just the starting assumption. I would probably make it Str -2 vs Fort or Dex -2 vs Ref (to negate the bonus from combat advantage).
Maybe also:
Effect: Take a -2 penalty to AC and Reflex Defense until the end of your next turn.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Dear god, it's like the return of grapple!

Seriously, though, that's about four steps more complicated than any attack in 4E should be. I'd really recommend slimming it down a lot.

Hmm, I think the number of steps isn't any more than other 4E combat processes. It's only two rolls to resolve the action (or one, if you miss the first Dex vs Reflex attack, or three, if you include the opportunity attack the disarm provokes), but that's fewer than, say, an area attack by a creature with an adjacent enemy. Try putting down, step-by-step, how you resolve a fireball lobbed into a group of enemies with different Reflex defences, and I reckon it'll be a lot longer than my disarm house rule. That is, I think you might be confusing the number of words I've used with the complexity of the rule.

I think the real problem lies not with the steps themselves (as I say, the entire disarm action is resolved in a maximum of three d20 rolls) but with the adjustments to the rolls, so it becomes a 3E-style maths problem...

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Wormwood]

In my game, powers not withstanding, disarming has very simple rules.

Step 1) Knock the opponent down to 0 hitpoints.
Step 2) Opponent is disarmed, and therefore defeated. He is subdued, as it is in swashbuckling movies.

Funny how elegantly this works.

This.

I encourage players to take control of opponents they bring to zero hit points. Narrating that defeat as a disarm is perfectly appropriate. As are surrenders and routs.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This.

I encourage players to take control of opponents they bring to zero hit points. Narrating that defeat as a disarm is perfectly appropriate. As are surrenders and routs.

Every once in a while its nice to gain a victory without hacking through hundreds of hit points. Any game that presents mindless attrition of hit points as the only way to end a conflict is not one that sounds very fun or interesting no matter how many different special effects are used to bring this about.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Every once in a while its nice to gain a victory without hacking through hundreds of hit points. Any game that presents mindless attrition of hit points as the only way to end a conflict is not one that sounds very fun or interesting no matter how many different special effects are used to bring this about.

On the other hand, if you allow a system to just bypass hit points and end conflicts without them, why have hit points?

My suggestion in these cases is not to find a solution in the rules, but find a solution in the scenario. Be it a special stunt (still very "combaty") or just open up negotiations. Most opponents that can use weapons are also intelligent enough to negotiate - you just have to convince them that it's worth it.