D&D 4E Does 4E have disarm?

[Dykstrav]

I'm designing some slavers for an upcoming adventure, and I really want to give them the ability to disarm their opponents--they're more inclined to take prisoners and sell them into slavery than kill them. A check of the core rules reveals no rules for disarming an opponent. Am I missing it, or do the 4E core rules just not include rules for disarming an opponent?

 

[Danceofmasks]

It's a level 17 fighter power ..
For the most part, normal folk can't really disarm with any degree of reliability.
Knock 'em unconscious and then take their weapons is the 4e way.

 

[Mouseferatu]

For the most part, normal folk can't really disarm with any degree of reliability.

As it should be, since it's not an easy thing to do.

Remember, however, that anything can be represented with the "let them try" rules on page 42 of the DMG.

In my case, if someone really wanted to try disarming the foe, but didn't have the power, I'd let them try with an attack vs. Reflex, but with a penalty to hit. And of course, if they hit, they'd disarm but not do any damage (as opposed to the powers, which do both).

(For the record, it's not just a fighter power. Rogues have something similar.)

 

[Vayden]

Well, I think the OP was looking to give his NPCs a disarm attack. Sounds reasonable to me - I'm make it recharge 5 or 6, make it an attack against reflex, and he's good to go.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, it may not be an issue at low levels, but at epic tier, if "disarm" is a generic vs. reflex move, then the optimum move in any combat vs. PCs would be to take away their heavily enchanted weaponry.

Losing at least +6 to hit (enhancement and proficiency) is fatal to those whose every power relies on it.

Just saying.
Disarm doesn't exist because it breaks the game.
Feel free to include it for drama, but any more common than that and it's cheese territory.

 

[Victim]

Considering the flexible rules for subdual, I'm not sure that slavers need special disarm attacks.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, it may not be an issue at low levels, but at epic tier, if "disarm" is a generic vs. reflex move, then the optimum move in any combat vs. PCs would be to take away their heavily enchanted weaponry.

Hence my inclusion of a penalty to hit.

 

[Danceofmasks]

And unless value of the penalty is qualitatively greater than the combined loss of hitroll for the PC in question for the rest of the combat, it's not balanced.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And unless value of the penalty is qualitatively greater than the combined loss of hitroll for the PC in question for the rest of the combat, it's not balanced.

Untrue, because being disarmed doesn't impose a penalty for the rest of the combat. It imposes a penalty for as long as it takes the character to regain the weapon. That requires either picking it up, or attempting a disarm back.

I'm not sure where people got the idea that being disarmed was a long-term thing. Frankly, one of the reasons why it's not a great tactic in the game is because it's just as easy to undo as it is to do. It's a good way for getting the McGuffin out of the villain's hands, or making the victim spend a round or two scrambling, but that's really about it.

 

[Danceofmasks]

But you can't get the weapon back if you have -6 to hit ...
I don't think you appreciate just how massive a debuff that is.