D&D 3.x Does 4e sound more D&Dish to you than 3e did?

[francisca]

Does 4e sound more D&Dish to you than 3e did?

Nope.

 

[mmu1]

Geron, if you have a question about a moderator or want to comment to them about what they have said, you email them or communicate via PM. You don't call them out in public, and particularly not like this.

Take a 3 day break to think this over.

...of course, it could be that, between the goofy "Sniper o' the Shrouds-Mod" title and the inappropriate behavior, Geron didn't actually realize the person insulting him was a moderator, and that any response would automatically be characterized as misconduct.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

...of course, it could be that, between the goofy "Sniper o' the Shrouds-Mod" title and the inappropriate behavior, Geron didn't actually realize the person insulting him was a moderator, and that any response would automatically be characterized as misconduct.

Seriously, I didnt know he was a mod either. He just .seemed like somebody who was being snarky toward Geron for no reason whatsoever..

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

...of course, it could be that, between the goofy "Sniper o' the Shrouds-Mod" title and the inappropriate behavior, Geron didn't actually realize the person insulting him was a moderator, and that any response would automatically be characterized as misconduct.

Speakin of Plane Sailing: How long did you know about the Astral Sea, Plane Sailing? Your avatar is made for 4th edition!

 

[Darkness]

Folks, as always, the boards aren't the place for discussing a moderator action. If you have a concern, please e-mail Plane Sailing instead of replying to him here. Thanks.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

…Would you settle for Reflex Defence?

They already said you will have both Reflex Defence (which will also substiture for "touch AC") and AC Defence (everything else)

No mention was made of "Flatfooted AC", but since they said that AC "is now a single number instead of 3" it seems the flatfooted rules are out (good with me)

 

[Dragonblade]

After listening to the monsters podcast, I'm totally on board with 4e feeling more D&D to me than 3e. I used to come up with complex stories on the fly by being able to run monsters right out of the monster manual back in 2e and 1e days.

Ever since 3e, I feel almost a subconscious yet crushing responsibility to keep an encounter "balanced" by following the rules. Before I run a monster I feel like I have to go look up all their abilities and feats to make sure I don't make a mistake.

If I want to add levels or advance a monster, I feel like I need to follow all the formulas exactly. I know this is all me, and I could probably ignore this stuff, but it just feels "wrong" somehow.

After listening to the 4e monster podcast, I feel liberated. Like I can go back to being a total improv based DM. Now that I think about it, that it exactly! In 1e and 2e, I felt like I could improv whole campaigns on the fly with nothing more than a half page of notes in front of me (and I did). With 3e that feeling disappeared and I dislike DMing 3e for that reason. I feel like I need several hours of prep even when running pre-written adventures.

With 4e, based on what I've heard, I will once again be able to improv intricate campaigns totally on the fly. And to me thats really what the classic D&D feel was all about.

 

[Baby Samurai]

They already said you will have both Reflex Defence (which will also substiture for "touch AC") and AC Defence (everything else)

No mention was made of "Flatfooted AC", but since they said that AC "is now a single number instead of 3" it seems the flatfooted rules are out (good with me)

But they hadn't said that at the time I posted what you quoted.

As for flat-footed, there is no longer a flat-footed AC (thank god), you now gain a combat advantage (+2 to hit and a chance to sneak attack if you have it?) against flat-footed opponents.

I also love that you now target Ref defence instead of Touch AC.

 

[grimslade]

Merric,
Does 4E seem more like D&D, than 3E? In short, no. It is the same, but in different ways.

I like a lot of the released info for 4E. Of course, it is in a vaccuum, so my feelings may change. Not having the 3 combat workday will be more like D&D. The never ending gearing up of magic items to be at acceptable power to face an appropriate CR will be more like D&D. The flavor is a mixed bag, it is completely unlike D&D, but it makes it feel more like D&D. I really can not explain that any better. It dumps the specific but retains the spirit I guess.
Ways 4E will not be more like D&D. Tieflings as a core race in PHBI. I have no problem with tieflings as a playable race, but there were much better candidates for replacing the gnome. Changeling tops the list. Much more well rounded trope than the touched by a demon tiefling or even the half-elf. I guess PHBII will have to suffice.
The whole at will/per encounter and per day mechanic is less like D&D. I like the mechanic idea and believe it will improve the game, but it is significantly less D&Dish. The whole flavor change of the cosmology is less D&D. I think this is the biggest and best change for 4E. The Great Wheel has a lot of nostalgia attached but it always seemed like plotting points on a graph than a setting. Ironically, I think a Planescape campaign in the new cosmology will make much more sense. Heresy and talking out my rear end, I know, but after the cosmolgy article I finally became interested in Planescape.

In the end, 4E is another stab at D&D. I like 3.XE but I have played through a couple of campaigns and it is time to move on. There are problems in the rules that I have houserules for or really contorted work arounds. Within a few months of 4E's release I will have started a new sheet of houserules and work arounds. This is what will make 4E just like all the previous editions. The same but different.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

This was mostly a function of how weak monsters in 1e where compared to PC's - especially as it related to thier THAC0 and the ability to threaten PC's once the characters acquired plate mail and a magic shield (or equivalent quality armor). Monsters didn't have strength bonuses generally - that was kinda rolled into the general idea of hit dice. So, for the most part 1e edition encounters (whether BD&D or AD&D played as it usually was much like BD&D with more options) occurred with relatively few 'incidents'. The expected damage per encounter was very low, because most monsters would only hit on about 15% of thier attacks. The expected damage per blow was also quite low, so that so long as you had a nice 'cushion' you could feel safe continuing on. The clerics healing and an emergency potion would keep you going if you got into trouble.

You can simulate this in 3e quite easily. Ignore the CR/EL system. Don't ramp up the EL of fights to match the level of the characters. Instead of single large dangerous opponents, mainly use lots of mooks with fairly low attack bonuses. Keep the magic low to moderate, and slow down the rate of advancement at higher levels.

Then the fights would be easy and boring. I want to recapture the feel of 1E combat, which you're correct to say was due to monsters being easy to kill, while maintaining the fun of 3.5-style challenges. I want to have my cake and eat it too. They have been suggesting that 4E will deliver.

You could do that because after about 9th level or so, there was very little in the MM that a 1st edition character couldn't beat in a straight up fight. A whole party of 6-8 9th level characters could mope the floor with almost anything.

Right again. And it generated a feel to the game that I want to recapture. Having a wide variety of creatures of various challenge levels--not necessarily the whole book, but a wider variety of creatures useful across a broader band of levels--will help me to do so.