Does a Death Ward Protect against Phantasmal Killer?

[Celtavian]

The Phantasmal Killer spell has the Illusion (Phantasm)[Fear, Mind-Affecting] Descriptor.

Does Death Ward only protect against Necromancy (Death) Spells or all magical death effects?

 

[Xylix]

I do belive that would fall under 'magical death effects'.

 

[0-hr]

Unless it says [Death], it ain't no death spell.

 

[Kraedin]

If it doesn't have the Death descriptor, it isn't a death spell.

 

[Xylix]

The spells says death spells AND magical death effects.


Logical operators are FAIRLY simple.

 

[Kraedin]

"Magical death effects" refers to non-spell magical effects with the Death descriptor.

 

[Xylix]

I fail to see how magical spells are not magical.

Perhaps you can explain this concept to me, instead of making blatent declarations. If something says it is magical, in its own description of itself, like magical spells, how cannot it not be magical? After all, hasn't it described it this way.

Is there a place in the book where it says magical spells aren't really magical? Instead they are non-magical magical spells, that are effected by anti-magic shells, even though they are not magical?

I don't think so.


further the ALL is pretty darn inclusive. If I remember right All is the operator that indicates everything. Since is says all death spells and magical death effects, and spells are magical, otherwise they wouldn't be called magic...

Thus, magic death spells fall within magic death effects.

 

[Kraedin]

Death ward protects against two things:

• Death spells (i.e., spells with the Death descriptor)
• Magical death effects (i.e., magical effects with the Death descriptor)

Phantasmal killer is not a death spell (it does not have the Death descriptor), and it is not a magical death effect (it does not have the Death descriptor.) Because of this, death ward does not protect you from phantasmal killer.

 

[Xylix]

Death ward protects against two things:

* Death spells (i.e., spells with the Death descriptor)
* Magical death effects (i.e., magical effects with the Death descriptor)

Please point to the line of the spell that states only those effects with the [death] descriptor.

As it is that Symbol of Death (in its name) that blatently kills in all ways just like every other death spell, is also not a death spell.

Now considering that, and that no supernatural effects ever have tags....

not the aboleths Enslave, which can obviously effect those immune to mind effecting powers, as it doesn't state it is one

not the Allip's babble, as though it says 'mind affecting' it isn't in tags...

The Behir's breath weapon is not really lighting because it does not have the [electricity] tag....

or the Bodak's death gaze.... Which appraently, according to you, effects undead and constructs!
....

Since your defintion does not hold up to example, it must be flawed.

If your definition is flawed one must return to the description

As such that is what one does, where you could say 'death' spell mean those labled with only the tags, legitimately as SPELLS are given such tags, magical effects most defintely does NOT have this limitation. The books completely fail to use these tags at all.

The use of 'magical-effects' leads one to immediatly conclude that this indeed must have been added for a purpose. Effects like the Bodak's death gaze pretty much confirm it. In such one declares that 'magical-effects' must be a catagory of at least one entity. Given this and the fact that no supernatural effects, or effects other than spells are labled with the tags, one must presume that your definition is indeed wrong.


That is pure logic.


From a common sense perspective if it is a spell that 'kills' it is a death spell. Afterall that is the english definition of a death spell. Further if it is a effect that kills, of magical nature than it is a magical death effect.


Phantasmal killer kills with 'magical fear' as such it is a magical death effect. So would be a spell that kills by stopping the heart, a spell that kills by causing the body to explode, or whatever other method an individual dreams of.

If it kills (save or die) it is a magical death effect.

It is pretty simple.


If that is not enough, consider this. The fortude save is used only for the following:

#1 : Save against poision (which now always does ability damage)

#2 : Save against disease (which also does abiilty damage)

#3 : Save against bodily change, which is nicely marked by 'polymorph' or other traditional mythical translations.

#4 : Save against death.

Phantasmal Killer requires #4. If one is making a save against death, one presumes one is effected by a death effect. And Phantasmal Killer is magical.

Thus it is a magical death effect.

 

[Kraedin]

As it is that Symbol of Death (in its name) that blatently kills in all ways just like every other death spell, is also not a death spell.

The designers saw fit to fill the core rulebooks with errors.

Now considering that, and that no supernatural effects ever have tags....

Supernatural abilities with descriptors:

• Aboleth's Enslave ability: mind-affecting (as dominate person)
• Achaierai's Black Cloud: mind-affecting (as insanity)
• Allip's Babble: sonic, mind-affecting, compulsion
• Beholder's eye rays: charm, mind-affecting, compusion, fear, death (as charm person, charm monster, sleep, fear, finger of death)
• Blink Dog's Dimension Door: teleportation (as dimension door)
• Celestial's Magic Circle Against Evil: good (as magic circle against evil)
• Celestial's Protective Aura: good (as magic circle against evil)
• Celestial's Teleport: teleport (as teleport without error)
• Darkmantle's Darkness: darkness (as darkness)
• Bebilith's Protective Aura: good, evil, law, chaos (as magic circle against good/evil/law/chaos)
• Osyluth's Fear Aura: fear, mind-affecting (as fear)
• Erinyes' Charm Person: charm, mind-affecting (as charm person)
• Hamatula's Fear: fear, mind-affecting (as fear)
• Cornugon's Fear: fear, mind-affecting (as fear)
• Gelugon's Fear Aura: fear, mind-affecting (as fear)
• Pit Fiend's Fear Aura: fear, mind-affecting (as fear)
• Doppelganger's Detect Thoughts: mind-affecting (as detect thoughts)
• and so on and so forth.

As such that is what one does, where you could say 'death' spell mean those labled with only the tags, legitimately as SPELLS are given such tags, magical effects most defintely does NOT have this limitation. The books completely fail to use these tags at all.

Obviously untrue. (See above.)

From a common sense perspective if it is a spell that 'kills' it is a death spell. Afterall that is the english definition of a death spell. Further if it is a effect that kills, of magical nature than it is a magical death effect.

Obviously a flawed definition. Many spells kill. Fireball can result in the death of the target, but that does not mean that it is a "magical death effect".

If that is not enough, consider this. The fortude save is used only for the following:

#1 : Save against poision (which now always does ability damage)

#2 : Save against disease (which also does abiilty damage)

#3 : Save against bodily change, which is nicely marked by 'polymorph' or other traditional mythical translations.

#4 : Save against death.

Also not true. It is used against energy drain and paralysis, amoung other things.