Does a Death Ward Protect against Phantasmal Killer?

[Caliban]

Re: Ahh a good argument!!!!

blah blah blah

*shrug* Whatever.

 

[IceBear]

All other things that cause instant death tend to do it directly. Phantasmal Killer does it indirectly - it creates an illusion that might scare you. If you're scared you might drop dead from fright. Thus, I don't consider it a "death effect". Is death ward going to protect you from a heart attack? I don't think so, and it's this that kills you, not the phantasmal killer itself.

IceBear

 

[AuraSeer]

Originally posted by Xylix:

Here in lies the real differentation. How are the words 'death effect' used in the spell. Do they refer to an internal definition concering only those magics that clearly state death effect?

Yes.
That was easy, wasn't it.

 

[Xylix]

Yes.
That was easy, wasn't it.

Unfortunately Yes is not very useful as I have already said

No

You have a problem with my no, I have a problem with your yes, because both cannot be right.

To solve this problem we have a discussion, each bringing up facts. Like Caliban, even if he wants to pretend I don't exist.

So you say yes, I say No, I say no because of all the reasons I have named. Now I ask

WHY THE HECK DO YOU SAY YES?

Your failure to answer or even attempt to do this shows that you have only contempt for the truth and consider your answer above it.

All other things that cause instant death tend to do it directly. Phantasmal Killer does it indirectly - it creates an illusion that might scare you. If you're scared you might drop dead from fright. Thus, I don't consider it a "death effect". Is death ward going to protect you from a heart attack? I don't think so, and it's this that kills you, not the phantasmal killer itself.

I contend that Phantamal killer is pretty darn direct. Adding flavor words to the mechanics does not change a spell.

Heart Attack is extrodinary, Death ward clearly says magical, from a magical heart attack, yes it would. As it is I could claim that is exactly what finger of death does. Afterall, it lacks any description of its own.

It would explain the 3d6+caster level damage quite fine...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Xylix,

There are a number of spells that can kill instantly. Does Death Ward protect against them all?

Does Death Ward protect against Flesh to Stone, Disintegrate, and Holy Word? I don't think so.

In context, a 'magical effect' is any miscellaneous magical power that is not a spell. A 'magical death effect' is any 'magical effect' that has a 'death' descriptor.

A 'death spell' is any 'spell' that has a 'death' descriptor.

I think you are getting hung up by the phrase 'magical death' as a general term. In context, the key phrase is 'magical effect', 'death' is the modifier.

 

[gfunk]

The following is a list of spells with the [Death] descriptor in the PHB:

Circle of Death (Necromancy) Fort negates
Death Knell (Necromancy) Will negates
Destruction (Necromancy) Fort partial
Finger of Death (Necromancy) Fort partial
Power Word, Kill (Conjuration) No save
Slay Living (Necromancy) Fort partial
Wail of the Banshee (Necromancy) Fort negates

**That's all**

Death Ward specifies what it does not work against:
1) Death by hit point loss
2) Death by poison
3) Death by petrification
4) "other effects even though they might be lethal"

The DMG mentions a couple of magical death effects that are not spells:

Bodak's Gaze (supernatural)
Arrow of Slaying

_________________________________________________

You stated,

"Just because there are classes that are death spells, and magical death effects does not mean that these classes are by anymeans exclusive."

Let's say that magical death effects are a big circle. Inside this circle are smaller circles representing supernatural things (Bodak's gaze), spells (magical effects with the [Death] descriptor, and other non-classified magical effects (Arrow of Slaying).

If Phantasmal Killer is included in this circle, it must be in one of the following sub-categories:
a) Supernatural abilities
b) Spells (require the [Death] descriptor)
c) Other magical effects

Since Phantasmal Killer is a spell that does not have the [Death] descriptor it is not a spell that can be placed within the subject of magical death effects (the big circle).

Your argument, as far as I can tell is that Phantasmal Killer belongs in category c) other magical effects.

However, since it is a spell it would be superfluous and illogical to place in the other magical effect category. If you were to do this, why even bother with the [Death] descriptor.


MY POINT

From a purely pragmatic point of view, it is easy to see how Phantasmal Killer can be interpreted as a death effect subject to Death Ward.

However, from a game mechanics view, this argument does not hold water.

 

[AuraSeer]

WHY THE HECK DO YOU SAY YES?

If you cannot comprehend any of the explanations that have been offered up to this point, I suggest a class in remedial English at your local community college.

 

[hong]

What is eating you today, Caliban ?

Xylix is Magus_Jerel's evil twin. That's enough to give anyone sane the heebie jeebies.

 

[Berk]

I still say it's the mixing up of the words affect and effect.

Death is the affect of a disintigration effect.

Since the effect was not death, it obviously isn't a death effect.

Now let's take finger of death.

Death is the affect of a death effect.

Now this is a death effect well because it is a death effect. Death is caused directly by death not by another means that just happens to cause death.

Read up and enjoy. =o)

 

[hong]

I still say it's the mixing up of the words affect and effect.

Death is the affect of a disintigration effect.

Oh dear.