Does a Wall of Force block . . . .

[KarinsDad]

It stops breath weapons, which are material and not creatures.

Spells cannot pass the wall in any direction. Spells like Magic Missile, Flaming Sphere, Flame Arrow, Ice Storm, Cloudkill, Acid Fog, Mage's Sword, Polar Ray and Meteor Swarm.

It's not an anti-magic field. It's a Wall of Force.

Everything you said here is irrelevant to the discussion.

We have NO definition of what force is in the game. We have some hints like it affects the ethereal plane normally, but we do not know what it actually is.

The Wall of Force spell does not state that it stops material objects. It does not state that it stops supernatural effects. It does not state that it stops extraordinary abilities.

Hence, it does not stop any of these unless it states that it does.

It does state that it stops certain effects: spells (with the exception of teleporting types), material / ethereal creatures, and breath weapons.

Period.

Now, if you have some rules that indicate exactly what force is and what it stops, please post them. I could not find any such rules.

And, we have other protective examples of force like Mage Armor which does NOT stop material objects, it merely hinders them.

So, we have to go with what is written in the Wall of Force spell unless we have force rules to guide us otherwise.

 

[Amal Shukup]

Where does it state that Wall of Force blocks Line of Effect?

Ah. I see. You want the 7000 page long rule book that breaks every rule into binary statements....

My understanding is that the Wall of Force spell ceates a solid wall (Evocation: Force). Immune to just about everything. ANY Solid wall provides 100% COVER (if you're on the other side. Anything solid - walls, sheets of ice, walls of force - block line of effect. Definitions for both Cover and Line of Effect are explicit.

Total Cover: If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you.

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

Is your argument that a Wall of Force isn't solid? Are you suggesting that a snowball (being merely an 'object' rather than the explicitly listed creature) can pass through unaffected? Even Disintegrate, which explicitly destroys a Wall of Force, doesn't affect the person standing on the far side. The Line of Effect stops at the Wall.


I'm a tad ticked at the designers for not defining 'Force Effects' (or, possibly, for making said definition hard to find). It OUGHT to be defined in Magic Overview/Schools/Evocation (much like you can find the distinction between Conjuration 'Calling' and Conjuration 'Summoning', or why Illusion 'DShadow' is different from Illusion 'Glamer').

Blargh.

HOWEVER. IF we postulate (perhaps as an exercise in common sense) that a wall of nigh on indestructable Force is 'solid', then we can clearly conclude its behavior as per the RAW.

A'mal

 

[Amal Shukup]

HOWEVER. IF we postulate (perhaps as an exercise in common sense) that a wall of nigh on indestructable Force is 'solid', then we can clearly conclude its behavior as per the RAW.

Further.

This powerful spell brings into being an immobile, invisible cubical prison composed of either bars of force or solid walls of force (your choice).

Similarly, Floating Disk (also a Force Effect) clearly can support objects. Shield provides AC vs physical objects (like arrows).

Ergo. Force = Solid.

Therefore: No Turning. No Snowballs. No Supernatural, Extraordinary, Spell-like, or Magical Effects that require Line of Effect. No Attack forms of any kind that require Line of Effect.

QED. Done.

A'mal

 

[Parlan]

Everything you said here is irrelevant to the discussion.

We have NO definition of what force is in the game. We have some hints like it affects the ethereal plane normally, but we do not know what it actually is.

True. For that matter, the SRD doesn't define iron or stone either, so by your rationale, a wall of stone or a wall of iron could be transparent. And I guess arrows can be shot through them as well.

good to know. Boy, the party wizard will sure be surprised when I spring this ruling on him! This way we can spend our free time discussing inherent properties of iron and stone rather than, oh I don't know, killing monsters and taking their stuff.

If you've seen Star Wars, you understand Force Effects.

 

[Coredump]

We have NO definition of what force is in the game. We have some hints like it affects the ethereal plane normally, but we do not know what it actually is.

The Wall of Force spell does not state that it stops material objects. It does not state that it stops supernatural effects. It does not state that it stops extraordinary abilities.

Hence, it does not stop any of these unless it states that it does.

It does state that it stops certain effects: spells (with the exception of teleporting types), material / ethereal creatures, and breath weapons.

Period.

At least in 3.0, there was a discussion because there were no *explicit rules* stating that the condition 'dead' had any negative effects. So technically, by the *rules*, you could still move, cast, attack, etc. even when dead.

I guess you played that way too....

(There is a reason for my sig.)

 

[Corlon]

I'm gonna have to side with all the other guys, it's like a wall of stone but it can't be touched by almost anything.

As for turning, I always assumed it was sort of a fear that only undead can feel, but it does say it's a channeling of positive energy, so I guess the wall of force would stop it.

 

[shilsen]

Where does it state that Wall of Force blocks Line of Effect?

Where does it state that Wall of Force provides total cover?

Mage Armor does not provide total cover and it "surrounds the subject".

For that matter, where does it state that Wall of Force even stops arrows?

It stops material creatures, but that does not mean that it stops material objects.

Okay, I'll bite. From the 3e FAQ, with regard to a question about using a shadow spell to duplicate Wall of Force:

A shadow wall of force is partially real and remains in place whether it is seen or not. Creatures that fail to disbelieve the wall cannot pass through it. Their spells do not have line of effect, and ranged or melee attacks bounce off the wall.

From the same FAQ, more explicitly:

A wall of force blocks line of effect, just like any other solid barrier.

There you go.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Egads! I turn my back for a few hours and the thread got hijacked. Oh well, I've done it myself a hundred times.

Seriously though, my only concern was with turning. (Though I'll admit that it was amusing to read the "It doesn't actually say X, so it can't possibly mean X" arguments.)

I'm going to rule this way, now that I've had time to review things. The Player's Handbook says (v. 3.5) "Good clerics and paladins and some neutral clerics can channel positive energy, which can halt, drive off (rout), or destroy undead." From that (and the next passage in the text), I'm ruling that the turning power is itself a controlling of this positive (or negative) energy.

So, I'm ruling that since a wall of force can block energy, it can block positive or negative energy, and since it can block these energies, it can block the power that a cleric taps when making a turn/rebuke attempt.

Dave

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I'm gonna have to side with all the other guys, it's like a wall of stone but it can't be touched by almost anything.

Well, the Wall of Stone spell does not actually say you cannot cast through it...

 

[shilsen]

So, I'm ruling that since a wall of force can block energy, it can block positive or negative energy, and since it can block these energies, it can block the power that a cleric taps when making a turn/rebuke attempt.

Dave

Sounds right. Don't forget that, as I mentioned earlier, undead with complete cover can't be turned. Get your undead some tower shields