Does anyone actually need the DMG?

[Mercurius]

Let me get this straight. I understand that the new DMG is intended for inexperienced Dungeon Masters. From a relatively cursory glance, it seems like anyone with a moderate amount of experience doesn't need it, or 90%+ of it. To put it another way, the utility of the DMG is conversely relative to an individual DM's degree of experience. Which gets me wondering: For the relatively experienced DM, is there any point to owning the DMG beyond completism? (That is, beyond having another pretty book on the shelf, with the occasional refresher course in running encounters?).

I'm not exactly the master of all DMs and have always preferred the "when in doubt, wing it approach" so that a certain level of rules specificity is simply never used in games that I have run. On the other hand, I haven't DMed regularly in more than a decade and, if I decide to get a group together, might enjoy a primer. But a 224-page primer?

Part of the problem seems that the DMG is no longer necessary to play Dungeons & Dragons (or am I missing something? I'm open to being ignorant here as I've only looked at the table of contents and briefly scanned the book itself). So why make it a core rulebook? And why charge the same cost as the PHB, which is now THE core rulebook? Personally I kind of miss the jumbled eccentricity of the 1e DMG--not because I want 4e to be 1e (far from it!) but because it was fun to read.

Looking at the table of contents, it seems that the first 147 pages is all about how to run a game. Do we really need 147 pages? After that you get a nice overview of the new D&D cosmology, followed by the only relatively useful "DM's toolbox", then the obligatory sample settings.

So two-thirds of the book is advice for new DMs (more, if you count the sample settings). I don't mean to gripe--and I hope the tone of this post comes across accurately as more bemused musing than irritation--but I'm honestly wondering if I'm missing something. The DMG just seems overly weighted towards newbies; why not, say, shorten the first two-thirds and extend the relatively disappointing DM's toolbox to include guidelines on creating classes, races, magic items, etc? Or why not simply extend the DM's toolbox so that the book is closer to the PHB's 320 pages?

I suppose all that and more will come out in DMG 2...so if the intent is for DMG 1 to be geared almost entirely towards inexperienced DMs, I can honor that, but it leaves most of waiting for next year for the Good Stuff, and it makes the first DMG seem like a lot of filler and exposition to get the real deal.

Who knows, when I have the books in my hands I might sing a different tune.

 

[ZetaStriker]

I didn't find it any worse than the 3.5 DMG. This one's predecessor seemed to waste a lot of space to me too, and even as a DM, I only occasionally checked the Trap and Unique Terrain rules. It was mainly there for players to check Magic Items and Prestige Classes. Hell, even as a DM that's what I used it for 99.9% of the time. I'm glad that they made the DMG and DM-only supplement now, and the Toolbox section, especially the 'creating monsters' part, is seeing a LOT of use from me. Skill Challenges and Trap sections will probably be visited fairly often as well. It seems a much more useful DM tool than previous incarnations.

 

[Samurai]

Let me get this straight. I understand that the new DMG is intended for inexperienced Dungeon Masters. From a relatively cursory glance, it seems like anyone with a moderate amount of experience doesn't need it, or 90%+ of it. To put it another way, the utility of the DMG is conversely relative to an individual DM's degree of experience. Which gets me wondering: For the relatively experienced DM, is there any point to owning the DMG beyond completism? (That is, beyond having another pretty book on the shelf, with the occasional refresher course in running encounters?).

I'm not exactly the master of all DMs and have always preferred the "when in doubt, wing it approach" so that a certain level of rules specificity is simply never used in games that I have run. On the other hand, I haven't DMed regularly in more than a decade and, if I decide to get a group together, might enjoy a primer. But a 224-page primer?

Part of the problem seems that the DMG is no longer necessary to play Dungeons & Dragons (or am I missing something? I'm open to being ignorant here as I've only looked at the table of contents and briefly scanned the book itself). So why make it a core rulebook? And why charge the same cost as the PHB, which is now THE core rulebook? Personally I kind of miss the jumbled eccentricity of the 1e DMG--not because I want 4e to be 1e (far from it!) but because it was fun to read.

Looking at the table of contents, it seems that the first 147 pages is all about how to run a game. Do we really need 147 pages? After that you get a nice overview of the new D&D cosmology, followed by the only relatively useful "DM's toolbox", then the obligatory sample settings.

So two-thirds of the book is advice for new DMs (more, if you count the sample settings). I don't mean to gripe--and I hope the tone of this post comes across accurately as more bemused musing than irritation--but I'm honestly wondering if I'm missing something. The DMG just seems overly weighted towards newbies; why not, say, shorten the first two-thirds and extend the relatively disappointing DM's toolbox to include guidelines on creating classes, races, magic items, etc? Or why not simply extend the DM's toolbox so that the book is closer to the PHB's 320 pages?

I suppose all that and more will come out in DMG 2...so if the intent is for DMG 1 to be geared almost entirely towards inexperienced DMs, I can honor that, but it leaves most of waiting for next year for the Good Stuff, and it makes the first DMG seem like a lot of filler and exposition to get the real deal.

Who knows, when I have the books in my hands I might sing a different tune.

I had a similar reaction. I think if they wanted to sell more DMGs, they should have kept the magic items in there (and doubled or tripled the number presented from the shortened list in the already overstuffed PHB). That would in turn have left more room in the PHB, room enough for more feats, an additional class and race, etc.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Templates. Monster creation rules. NPC creation rules. Explanation of expected treasure handouts. Traps. Skill Challenges. Damage & DC guidlines for stunts. Probably more.

 

[Thasmodious]

Yeah, what pumpkin said. There is a lot of crunch in there, including the central concepts for designing and balancing the game and encounters. Sure, experienced DMs don't need everything in there, but that's true of every DMG. Still, it never hurts to go over the basics again and see how they apply to the concepts behind a new system of mechanics.

 

[Olfactatron]

Well, sure it's for newbies.
4e, more than any other RPG I've ever seen, is designed to make ease of use the primary function. I believe it's why there's a simulationist/og gamer backlash. The whole system is a concerted effort to bring new players into the game.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Also hidden amongst general info, are little tidbits, like the Swashbuckling tidbit, like making breastplate armour and giving it the stats of plate so the Paladin is still as protected as always but still fits the mood.

Now yes many people would think of that if experienced, but every little hint or idea helps.

 

[Thasmodious]

I think the backlash is more just the simulationists. Being on OG myself, me and my OG players are more than happy with the new system. After 30 years of gaming all we really want is a system that's easy to play the D&D we've always loved and always come back to, no matter what other systems we tried. We've always changed the game in whatever ways we felt made sense, just like every group does. So I really appreciate a system that is built for that - start with a simple, modular baseline and just let the experienced gamers be free to do what we're going to do anyway.

 

[Pale Jackal]

A bit before I pre-ordered the 4E Gift Set, I looked through the 3.0 DMG and thought to myself (cheap punk that I am): "Do I really need the 4.0 DMG, especially since it's going to be lacking magic items?"

There is some crunch in the 4.0 DMG, and given the cost of the Gift Set versus the MM and PHB, the price for the DMG is about $16.00. I consider that an acceptable 'loss.'

 

[Sashi]

I think the 4E DMG won't be needed by players, anymore, but it will be needed by DM's even more. XP allotments per level, treasure parcels, explicit algorithms for creating monsters. All are important for creating adventures.

If there's one less book I have to reference during play, so much the better. But the DMG will still be very important for making adventures.