Does anyone else think D&D 4th edition should be more like 2nd edition

[Dannyalcatraz]

KenM said:
My problem is IMO WOTC put out 3.5 way to soon. If a new edtion comes out in 2006, 3 years after 3.5, I will not support it anymore. It will just show that WOTC is doing the "put out new edtion, and books when nothing new can be put out, put out newer rules set"

I can't say I disagree that 3.5 came out too soon, but I'm guessing it has at least as much to do with Hasbro (the new owner of WOTC) as with the guys at WOTC being money grubbers. (No offense meant, y'all!)

Hasbro has a real no-nonsense policy about making money with its games. That is at least part of why the redux of Chainmail died so quickly, despite being one of the better fantasy miniatures wargames around.

My therory: When Hasbro got their hands on WOTC, M:TG was making money, but 2Ed was slipping relative to its competition (White Wolf, Palladium products). Thus, 3Ed got shipped early so WOTC could make a better show on the bottom line- before all of its ideas had been fully playtested, and leaving behind certain elements. 3.5Ed represents a more complete realization of what WOTC intended for 3Ed. (Not, mind you, that I think 3.5 is better- I hybridize the 2 systems myself.)

However, RPGs have different sales and profit curves from CCGs or boardgames. 4Ed will be coming to a store near you, sooner or later- and Hasbro will likely have more of a say in that than may be healthy for WOTC and the game...unless 4Ed is a great game.

If it rocks, it will sell. If its just a slight improvement, the game and the company may tank.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

I'm moving to dragonsfoot because it is more 2e friendly. Let the great Exoudus start "Tell old Morrus, Let my people go!"

As a Jew, I'm incredibly offended by that. But as a lover of trolls, I say "good luck and godspeed".

 

[warlord]

Tarresuqe Wrangler I'm sorry I offended you by making fun of your religion now goodbye for now ENworld but I shall return in a more enlightend state someday.

 

[Crothian]

but I shall return in a more enlightend state someday.

when he finds out the true brilliance of d20

 

[MerricB]

Hasbro has a real no-nonsense policy about making money with its games. That is at least part of why the redux of Chainmail died so quickly, despite being one of the better fantasy miniatures wargames around.

Interestingly, the success of the D&D Miniatures game validates that move. I dare say the D&D Miniatures game has sold more and made more money than Chainmail did.

Cheers!

 

[David Howery]

Disclaimer note: I've never played the 3E version of D&D. Alas, my gaming group disbanded long before it came out. Most of my gaming career was in 1E and 2E games. Thus, my comments are all based on only reading the 3E rulebooks, not playing them.

THere are a lot of things I like about 3E that were a vast improvement over previous games... the 'AC goes up' combat system is much better, and removing the demihuman level limits was something that most of us did anyway. On the downside, combat seems to have added a whole lot of complicated factors (I've never fully understood the 'Attacks of Opportunity' parts)which rather negates the simplified AC system... still, maybe it works better in practice than in print. My biggest pet peeve with 3E is that it is so simple to hop from class to class willy nilly. This was a tactic that I despised as a DM in earlier editions.. although this just might be my own idiosyncracy, as other DMs don't seem to have a problem with it.
I've never really understood why so many people loved 1E and hated 2E.. the systems really weren't that radically different. Anything you liked in 1E that didn't make it into 2E could be fixed pretty easily. 3E is a whole different game.
As for 4E... well, as someone who doesn't game anymore, it's not that relevant for me. In general though, judging from the amount of "I hated 2E so much I wanted to kill myself" comments on here, sounds like it would be a bad idea. So, getting away from the whole "4E should be more like 2E" thing, just what would you like 4E to look like?

 

[Krieg]

I've never really understood why so many people loved 1E and hated 2E.. the systems really weren't that radically different. Anything you liked in 1E that didn't make it into 2E could be fixed pretty easily. 3E is a whole different game.

Think of it as a sports metaphor.

Do you want to be the coach that replaces Bear Bryant (or Joe Paterno, Bobby Bowden, Tom Osborne, Ara Parseghian etc)?

Of course not! It's much better to be the coach who replaces the poor schmuck who was unlucky enough to follow the legend.

1E was Tom Osborne and 2E was Frank Solich...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Um, I really dig sports, but:

Ara Parsegian

Who?

1E was Tom Osborne

Who?

and 2E was Larry Coker...

Who?

I'm beginning to sound like Woodsy!

 

[David Howery]

well, unlike in sports, you can mix the two. 1E had good stuff and problems, so did 2E.. you could cut them up and splice them together as you chose, simply because they were so alike. If you tried to cut up Osborne and Solich and stitch the parts you like together, they would probably strongly object and you might even get arrested...

 

[Krieg]

Ara Parseghian:
Notre Dame Football coach from 1964-1974.
Record at ND: 95-17-4 (.836)
Won two national titles while at ND.

After he retired he was replaced in Dan Devine who was villified by Irish fans despite going 53-16-1 (.764) and winning a national title of his own in '77.
To their dismay they realized just how good they had it when he was replaced by Gerry Faust in '81.


Tom Osborne:
Nebraska Football coach from 1973-1997.
Record at Nebraska: 255-49-3 (.836)
Three national championships.

Osborne (now a US Congerssman) was followed by Frank Solich in 1998 who was fired last year by Nebraska after going 9-3 & despite a 58-19 (.753) record while at Nebraska.

(Ignore the reference to Larry Coker, he is the University of Miami's current head coach and I swapped his name for Solich's due to a brain fart!)

well, unlike in sports, you can mix the two. 1E had good stuff and problems, so did 2E..

True. However my point was that much of the negativity directed towards 2E had far more to do with the emotional attachment people had with 1E rather than the content of 2E itself.