Does anyone like class skills?

[Vigilance]

So I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of class skills in Modern20.

We already made no class skills an optional rule in Modern Supplement #1 and as I work on Modern20 Revised, a free update/expansion to Modern20 core, I am seriously considering getting rid of them altogether.

Is there any reason I shouldn't?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of class skills in Modern20.

We already made no class skills an optional rule in Modern Supplement #1 and as I work on Modern20 Revised, a free update/expansion to Modern20 core, I am seriously considering getting rid of them altogether.

Is there any reason I shouldn't?

I like class skills. I just don't like cross-class skills.

I think it is appropriate for a class-based game to link certain skills with character class, and give incentive or advantages in buying them. But i think the default cross-class rules of the d20 System as found in D&D or d20 Modern are too harsh. Cross-Class Skills are just to expensive and too often worthless.

There are two approaches I liked:
I think the Pathfinder "fix" is pretty neat - basically, if you take a skill as a class skill, you get a +3 bonus to it. (But no more 4 x skill points at 1st level). The cost for the skills are always the same.

The Iron Heroes fix is also very good - all skills are linked to skill groups, and if a class grants you a skill group, you just need to take one rank in that group to get one rank in every skill of that group.

 

[damiller]

I don't use class skills with this idea in mind: even the most hardened Tank may very well spent some time studying Art.

I like having the option to have archetypal type characters that have twists to them, without having to worry about IF they can do it, or do it well.

On the mechanics side, I don't think that how to do cross class skills is well explained within the Core Modern20. If that is cleaned up and explained concisely I wouldn't use it, but it would be good for the rules themselves.

Thats partly because I believe Modern20 has relied on someone knowing d20 rules instead of assuming no prior knowledge of d20. It is frustrating as a purchaser to not have all the rules adequately explained within the book, but have to purchase or look elsewhere to obtain that information. (yes I am looking at spells, while I don't mind that I have to use the SRD to get spells, I wish that were specifically told, so I wouldn't have to guess where to get spells.)

With all that criticism however I would note that Modern20 is my favorite version of d20 so far, and I actually enjoy making full characters using the rules.

Which from me is a compliment.

d

 

[Vigilance]

I don't use class skills with this idea in mind: even the most hardened Tank may very well spent some time studying Art.

I like having the option to have archetypal type characters that have twists to them, without having to worry about IF they can do it, or do it well.

Yeah, I felt like the classes should have definition, but I think the class feat lists do that well enough.

Thats partly because I believe Modern20 has relied on someone knowing d20 rules instead of assuming no prior knowledge of d20.

Yeah, Modern20 assumes at least a passing familiarity with d20 rules. One reason I didnt specify a location for spells is that I don't care: SRD, MSRD, Arcana Evolved, anyplace with levelled spells works.

Like most things in Modern20, that was a compromise. If you want a little magic in a campaign the book gives you some pointers. Since my assumption is that most people won't, I didn't want to devote a lot of space to it.

With all that criticism however I would note that Modern20 is my favorite version of d20 so far, and I actually enjoy making full characters using the rules.

Which from me is a compliment.

d

Thanks!

Id also like to take this opportunity to once again let folks know that after GenCon there will be even more Modern20 to love, as we're expanding and revising the game, by about 25%.

And despite the scope and size of the revision, it will be free to folks who already have the game.

 

[Brutorz Bill]

For the record, put me down for NOT being a fan of class skills. My players like having more options and as you stated earlier I think you can use Feats to properly seperate the various classes.
Thanks!

 

[Sunsword]

No class/cross-class skills is my preference as well. I like the option presented in the Companion & use it in my Supers20 games.

Is there any possibility for a SWSE style Skill system?
Or even SWSE/4E style Defenses(as opposed to Saves)?

 

[Vigilance]

No class/cross-class skills is my preference as well. I like the option presented in the Companion & use it in my Supers20 games.

Yeah, I think not having class skills is the way we're going to go.

Is there any possibility for a SWSE style Skill system?
Or even SWSE/4E style Defenses(as opposed to Saves)?

I think both these systems are closed content, so we couldn't use them.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think both these systems are closed content, so we couldn't use them.

You just have to avoid "breaking" copyright then, which is mostly a wording issue. It's not like just because someone invented the term "blood points" in a game, it can't be used in others. It sure would be easier if it was open, though.

Static Defenses might actually be part Unearthed Arcana, and I think that's open.

 

[Psion]

I like/prefer class skills. I don't like how hard you get dinged for cross class skills, but would prefer to see something like grim tales (build your own list), spycraft (numerous options exist to add to your list), or even alternity/pathfinder (class skill is merely a bonus). As is stands in D20 modern (and most d20 variants), picking cross class skills is a bit too much of a punishment.

To me, dissolving the skill-class linkage goes too far in making the feel and focus of the class too diffuse, injures niche protection too much, and makes "jack of all trades" characters too desirable.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I don't actually mind either way, but I agree that cross-class skills in standard d20 are a bit on the expensive side. Well, pretty much not worth the bother, most of the time.

Pathfinder's way of handling it looks good, but I haven't tried that just yet. Give it a week or so, and I'll have a better idea of how much I like/dislike it.

Anyway though, for class-based systems, some kind of class skill setup makes sense, to me.