Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

[TiQuinn]

In that really long thread about monks, lots of people talk about the monk jumping all over the battlefield, climbing walls, etc...

Now, I would never put points into either of these skills. Same with balance and swim. I'm tempted to make a character that's good at these things, but when Slippers of Spider Climb cost only 2k, why throw away my skill points. If you don't have slippers, then chances are the party's mage can spare Spider Climbs and Fly for the whole group. Or, you can cast Fly on the strongest character, and have them ferry everyone else accross. Even the humble grappling hook and 50' of silk rope can substitute for these skills in most occasions.

So, unless your character has a great fear of 60' deep anti-magic pit traps, why should you spend points on any of these skills?

....Because making the wizard spend all his spell slots on Fly & Spider Climbs instead of Fireball, Dispel Magic, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endurance, Mirror Image, or Invisibility doesn't sound like a good idea.

....Because even if there's a cheaper, magical or more efficient way of accomplishing the task, sometimes it's just cooler if your character can do it himself with his own abilities.

....Because the idea of the fighter ferrying the monk or the rogue across a wall just sounds lame.

....Because Slippers of Spider Climbing and Winged Boots are the first things to get destroyed when the fireball hits you. With such cheap magical items, your DM DOES use item saves.....doesn't he?

....Because Dispel Magic is the worst thing that can happen to a a character spider climbing up a 100' cliff.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

But, as GM, I always rule that once one person does it, it's presumed the group is resourceful enough to get everyone where they need to be. Once one guy has jumped the pit or swum the river, the group can use ropes and things to make it easier for everyone. The players still need to tell me *how* they're going to do it, but once they do, presuming it makes sense, they just do it.

Spycraft has an interesting class ability on their leader class- it allows him to make one skill check for the whole group.

I thought it was a pretty cool idea- and goes along with your suggestion.

Perhaps a feat with leadership as the requirement that gives a similar ability.

FD

 

[heirodule]

Great Idea

I personally like throwing odd things at the PC's from time to time, like a vertical dungeon where you have to climb your way through most of it

Ok, now I know what to do. Take a standard module and (by magic, of course) shift the whole thing 90 dgerees. The walls become the floor and ceiling.

Maybe have it hapen while they are inside.


Hmmmm.

 

[Christian]

Re: Re: Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

....Because Dispel Magic is the worst thing that can happen to a a character spider climbing up a 100' cliff.

My monk character (R.I.P.) was maxed out in Jump, Move Silently, Listen, and Tumble, with some mixed points in Balance, Climb, and Craft (calligraphy). I certainly never regretted any points I put in these skills ...

 

[Chimera]

Because the group Wizard can't be expected to have every spell you might need at any given moment.

Because no GM with half a brain would allow the party to have entire reams of insanely cheap skill enhancing magic items. Talk about completely screwing your game...

Because, clearly, no GM you play or have played with has ever had a scenario where you need to swim, then climb down into a cave, then jump a chasm.

Q: What are you doing for these at low to mid levels, where your Wizard doesn't have that many spells and you can't afford all those items?

Too darned easy to say "well, at high level I have access to all these things" and blow off hypothetical problems as easily solvable. But 'access' does not always equate to 'in my hand' or 'I have that spell memorized' when the excrement hits the air distribution system.

 

[Desdichado]

All the time. Especially as a fighter when you don't really have many other choices.

 

[Christian]

Too darned easy to say "well, at high level I have access to all these things" and blow off hypothetical problems as easily solvable.

That's part of what I call 'Athena syndrome', which often comes into play when characters are designed at mid/high levels. Jump and Climb are life-savers for low-level characters ... so high-level characters would be expected to have points in those skills, although not maxed-out. The Toughness feat is another good example-nobody makes a 10th level Wizard with Toughness, even though many 1st level Wizards (especially those with poor Con) have it. How the heck did that 10th level Elven Wizard with 8 Consititution ever make it to 2nd level with 3 stinkin' hit points?

(For those whose classical education has been neglected, the goddess Athena was supposed to have been born from the head of Zeus as a full-grown woman, fully armed and armored. Zeus must have had one heck of a headache, if you ask me.)

 

[Phowett]

Yes, because of roleplaying.

 

[Zerovoid]

Re: Re: Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

....Because making the wizard spend all his spell slots on Fly & Spider Climbs instead of Fireball, Dispel Magic, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endurance, Mirror Image, or Invisibility doesn't sound like a good idea.

....Because even if there's a cheaper, magical or more efficient way of accomplishing the task, sometimes it's just cooler if your character can do it himself with his own abilities.

....Because the idea of the fighter ferrying the monk or the rogue across a wall just sounds lame.

....Because Slippers of Spider Climbing and Winged Boots are the first things to get destroyed when the fireball hits you. With such cheap magical items, your DM DOES use item saves.....doesn't he?

....Because Dispel Magic is the worst thing that can happen to a a character spider climbing up a 100' cliff.

I must have had alot different experiences with these things than you guys. My group routinely casts fly on only one person. In fact, in the last game I played in (12th level one shot), the Ogre Frenzied Berserker rode the Dragon Disciple across a cavern filled with giant spiders, and full of webs all over. The idea was that the ogre would chop through them with his flaming axe. About half the other PC's had other ways to fly, and we followed along behind the two large characters, and the rest covered us with arrows from the entrance. Later, the Dragon Disciple carried them all across. So, we only used one casting of fly during that encounter.

No, I don't think I've ever had to make an item saving throw, under several different DM's. I always forget about them when I'm running the game also. I actually figured that most people probably blow them off.

Do most of you allow spider climb to work underwater? Many times have I seen PC's who can't swim bypass water hazards by just walking along the floor and up the other side with Spider Climb.

I had never stopped to think about what oil might do to Slippers of Spider climb. I figured as long as even a little part of them was touching the wall, you'd be ok, since those things are damn sticky. Actually, that sounds kind of dumb to me now. I suppose you would fall if you tried to move after they poured the oil.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I had an NPC that could just about jump anything. Essentially the character didn't need fly to clear obstacles (unless they were large lakes or something similar). Great for getting out of the way of an attack. I jump on the roof of the building! I jump over the 30 foot castle wall! I jump over the 50-foot pit!

Loads of fun really, the jump skill.

I can't see climb being quite as useful, but I think it has its moments. A character in my last campaign had lots of climb and immovable rods, he could "climb" anywhere he wanted, not a problem for him!