Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

[GenLang]

Re: Re: Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

Well, I've never run a game where the characters can just burn some gold and get whatever magic items they want. Sure, the slippers may only cost 2k (or more...), but who's to say that there's a nearby shop just waiting for someone to take those darn slippers off their hands?

I take it your world doesn't have mid-level wizards willing to pick up a little change on the side for turning out a quick two-day job of making a pair of slippers? 1K profit for the item maker, and 80 xp isn't exactly hard to make up.

Cheap magic items are easy to get, because they're cheap. What's not so easy to get are the EXPENSIVE items. A +5 weapon takes yon mage -50 days- of work to enchant, and who knows how long for the smith to forge. Those aren't lying around in shops waiting to be picked up, unless you're hanging around Waterdeep, and even then it's chancy, and having the time to wait for a special item to be crafted per your comission isn't a cure deal either.

 

[Shallown]

I had a rogue/fighter that always bought jump/climb and such with fighter skill points so he could by other skills with his Rogue skills. He was mostly a rogue who fought decently. He tended to do the unusual (Not bizarre) Improved trips and such. Carried a variety of weapons and such without getting gadgety. I saw him as a person who used magic and magic items as tools but still always wanted to be able to fall back on his skills.

And as a GM I use climb, jump, tumble, balance all the time. Imight assign a circumstance penalty due to terrain and allow skill rolls to negate or reduce these penalties. I don't shoot for high Dc's usually either 10-15 but the characters still think it is worth it to spend a few points in these areas now. But That's just me.

Later

 

[Creamsteak]

Personally I think that your belief that characters should just use magic items is flawed on it's own, because you show that you think Magic can be relied on at all times. If that's the case in your world, I pitty you.

 

[Hellzon]

The weird thing is, I have yet to see a rogue in 3rd ed take more than 2 ranks in Climb. Ever. Regardless of level.

This is despite the fact that all the guys I game with played 2nd ed.

I know if I played a rogue, it's one of the skills I'd max out, but then again, I've always liked playing the acrobatic-thieves more than the open locks/pick pockets sort.

My rogue is the 'lock pick type' (has ranks in craft - locksmith, even) but he still has max climb ranks. I'm mutating him into a more 'roguish' charachter as I level, having started him as a quite law-abiding (though CG) 'member of the community'

But then again, I haven't played 2:nd ed ADND (except for the kind found in Baldur's Gate II)

 

[bwgwl]

if i'm playing a fighter, rogue, ranger, barbarian, or monk, i always pick up ranks in Climb and Jump. rogues and monks also always get Balance. i don't take Swim too often, but i tend to play dwarves and other characters like that who don't necessarily like the water...

but my most recent character is a lizardfolk barbarian/ranger with several ranks in Swim, as well as Climb and Jump.

i'd much rather "waste" a few skill points on these skills, allowing the party wizard one more fireball per day rather than having him waste a fly spell on me...

2) Balance - if your DM doesn't think things through and just blindly follows recommendations in published adventures this is pretty much an useless skill. For example look at The Approaching Swarm http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/ch/ch20020610a
Notice that it calls for Reflex saves when moving through mud to avoid slipping. Give me a break, that just screams Balance check. I have found this to be typical of published adventures.

that's a shame. what i usually do for something that you could fall off of (like a narrow bridge or ledge) is have them make a Balance check to keep their footing, and then if they fail, make a Reflex save to catch onto the edge before plummetting to their deaths...

 

[ergeheilalt]

I play a sorcerer/fighter. This guy uses a whip all Indiana jones like. So he's jumping, swinging, and climbing with this whip. So it seems logical that he'd have ranks in the associated skills. The DM is relatively low key when it comes to handing out treasures...so the entire party makes up for it with specializing in their associated skills. (wizard=knowledge, cleric=heal/diplomacy, ranger=wilderness lore). It seems a little meta-gamish (yes, a new word ) to count on being able to find spider climb slippers or boots of striding and springing just as soon as you have the cash.

Ergeheilalt

 

[tarchon]

So, unless your character has a great fear of 60' deep anti-magic pit traps, why should you spend points on any of these skills?

The answer is the one everybody's been saying. Spells costs spell slots; magic items cost money and magic item slots. Skills don't run out, or get dispelled, or depend on how well you suck up to the wizard in the party. Our monk is high in Climb and Jump, and he even has some Swim. He uses both Climb and Jump regularly. Swim doesn't come up as much, but it saved the monk's and the party's bacon on one major occasion.

We got ambushed by trolls on a mountain trail over a river gorge. Three guys (half the party) went down before their inits, and the rest were gravely wounded. The monk, cornered by two trolls, realized that the unconscious sorcerer's lightning bolts were the only thing that would save us. So he picked up the limp sorcerer, leaped 70 feet* into the river below, and forced a healing potion down the sorc's throat while treading water. The sorcerer revived, cast a fly on himself, and flew up to blast the trolls, which were being futilely resisted by the cleric and the barbarian. The monk then, using his fantastic move, swam to the bank, climbed back up the cliff, and got back into the fight within (as I recall) 4 rounds or so.

We still had two fatalities (plus the barbarian's orc groom panicked and made an extremely fatal leap into the gorge, rather than face the trolls), but it would have been a total party wipeout without those monk skills. Well, I guess the monk could have gotten away in any case, but everybody else would have been troll coldcuts. The monk is in fact the only long-standing party member who hasn't had to be raised at some point.

* 20 ft from water, 30 ft from Slow Fall, 10 ft for Jump check, 10 ft from Tumble check = 70 ft jump for no damage.

 

[TiQuinn]

Re: Re: Re: Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

I must have had alot different experiences with these things than you guys. My group routinely casts fly on only one person. In fact, in the last game I played in (12th level one shot), the Ogre Frenzied Berserker rode the Dragon Disciple across a cavern filled with giant spiders, and full of webs all over. The idea was that the ogre would chop through them with his flaming axe. About half the other PC's had other ways to fly, and we followed along behind the two large characters, and the rest covered us with arrows from the entrance. Later, the Dragon Disciple carried them all across. So, we only used one casting of fly during that encounter.

No, I don't think I've ever had to make an item saving throw, under several different DM's. I always forget about them when I'm running the game also. I actually figured that most people probably blow them off.

At most I've had two people in a party with the ability to fly. Most of the time the rogue and monk type characters want to use their skills such as Climb, Jump, Swim, etc., basically because they like it. It's cool for one's character to be able to do it on their own. Sure, the mage could cast fly on the fighter and have him carry everyone past an obstacle. And we've done that before as well. But we quickly realized that it was kind of....well.....dull! Boring! It's far more fun to "see" the monk use his Leap of the Clouds to jump the chasm.

As for item saves, I use them and others who I've gamed with use them as well. Part of the reason is that items are easier to make now, but it's also for the specific reason that it makes skill selection important. Characters can't always rely on their items.

 

[TiQuinn]

Re: Re: Re: Does anyone put skill points in Jump and Climb?

You only have a magic item save against area effects when you roll a 1 on your save. Makes it rare that it would happen, if at all.

Actually, over the course of an entire campaign, you'd be surprised how often it happens IF you're really sticking fast to this rule. Area effect spells that catch the majority of the party really take their toll here. I suspect that a lot of DMs let it slide when someone rolls a 1 on a saving throw. But that's not the only way for items to be destroyed. There are a number of hazards and monsters that can destroy items, even if the PC doesn't roll a 1. Destrachans, Bebiliths, Rust Monsters, opponents with Sunder, Ethereal Filchers (ok...they steal items.), Green Slime, and all the various kinds of Oozes can destroy items as well.